deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Mar 4, 2015 0:10:59 GMT -5
Normal people logic would be "I pay this person X amount of dollars because they get me X amount of dollars in return".
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Post by groovyphoenix on Mar 4, 2015 15:44:12 GMT -5
Normal people logic would be "I pay this person X amount of dollars because they get me X amount of dollars in return". Again though my question is, how to you define the amount in dollars if a diva gets 1 minutes and Cena gets 20 minutes for his match, A Diva makes say 5000 in sales for 1 minutes, but Cena gets 20k in sales for 20 minutes, does this mean the Diva should get more? She's actually costing them LESS per capita/airtime/pay then Cena is. So why not rewards them? Or better yet, if you want to compare it on an even playing field, never mind "money" give them each 20 minutes airtime and not just ratings but money generated can then be compared on an even level.
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Post by paulyesco on Mar 4, 2015 15:54:19 GMT -5
Sorry, I was referring to my previous prediction that they would part ways. Now AJ's back, and it looks like status quo. Totally baffling and defies logic.
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Post by Milky on Mar 4, 2015 16:13:50 GMT -5
Or maybe the majority of women don't care about sports like men do and don't support it like men do. Fake equality and placating a small minority is bullshit when it comes to supply and demand.....if the demand was high, it should be supplied more than something that doesn't. It's not a social problem, it's an economic problem, hence the fact that this whole #GiveDIvasAChance and that Arquette comment have died down. Coke Zero is good guys, you should try it......No? But C'monnnnnn it should be the same as regular Coke, it's not fair.....It's not an even playing field. You simply can’t compare GSP to Ronda Rousey, because it is not a like-for-like comparison. I can’t really speak too in-depth about the UFC because I don’t particularly follow MMA. But I do recall UFC head honcho Dana White infamously stating, on the record, that women had no place in the UFC. I believe the word “never” was used in regards to whether or not he would ever promote female fighting. I suspect that if women fighting in the UFC is anything like women wrestling in the WWE, then the fans have been pre-conditioned not to see women fighters on the same level as their male counterparts. From what I know the UFC seem to be on the right track now, but there are definitely still hurdles to overcome. But what I am most interested in is women in professional wrestling, and particularly on RAW. I don’t believe that their division is promoted seriously and fans of RAW have definitely been conditioned to view female wrestling as unimportant, which does not do the Divas bottom lines any favours, no matter how hard they work. It’s also not a simple economic problem. I think we can all agree that better wrestling should draw more money. But why can’t Lucha Underground out-draw RAW then? Why is Lucha Underground not the #1 wrestling promotion in North America? It should be a simple like-for-like comparison!!
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Mar 4, 2015 17:26:50 GMT -5
Normal people logic would be "I pay this person X amount of dollars because they get me X amount of dollars in return". Again though my question is, how to you define the amount in dollars if a diva gets 1 minutes and Cena gets 20 minutes for his match, A Diva makes say 5000 in sales for 1 minutes, but Cena gets 20k in sales for 20 minutes, does this mean the Diva should get more? She's actually costing them LESS per capita/airtime/pay then Cena is. So why not rewards them? Or better yet, if you want to compare it on an even playing field, never mind "money" give them each 20 minutes airtime and not just ratings but money generated can then be compared on an even level. What kind of fools math is that? Cena wasn't getting 20 minutes when he started, he was getting that 1 minute, and he made the most out of that 1 minute and he showed the people in power that he can draw them money, so he was given more time and thus made more money.......simple isn't it?
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Mar 4, 2015 17:31:14 GMT -5
Or maybe the majority of women don't care about sports like men do and don't support it like men do. Fake equality and placating a small minority is bullshit when it comes to supply and demand.....if the demand was high, it should be supplied more than something that doesn't. It's not a social problem, it's an economic problem, hence the fact that this whole #GiveDIvasAChance and that Arquette comment have died down. Coke Zero is good guys, you should try it......No? But C'monnnnnn it should be the same as regular Coke, it's not fair.....It's not an even playing field. You simply can’t compare GSP to Ronda Rousey, because it is not a like-for-like comparison. I can’t really speak too in-depth about the UFC because I don’t particularly follow MMA. But I do recall UFC head honcho Dana White infamously stating, on the record, that women had no place in the UFC. I believe the word “never” was used in regards to whether or not he would ever promote female fighting. I suspect that if women fighting in the UFC is anything like women wrestling in the WWE, then the fans have been pre-conditioned not to see women fighters on the same level as their male counterparts. From what I know the UFC seem to be on the right track now, but there are definitely still hurdles to overcome. But what I am most interested in is women in professional wrestling, and particularly on RAW. I don’t believe that their division is promoted seriously and fans of RAW have definitely been conditioned to view female wrestling as unimportant, which does not do the Divas bottom lines any favours, no matter how hard they work. It’s also not a simple economic problem. I think we can all agree that better wrestling should draw more money. But why can’t Lucha Underground out-draw RAW then? Why is Lucha Underground not the #1 wrestling promotion in North America? It should be a simple like-for-like comparison!! Yes it's a "like for like comparison".....either the masses like this more or they don't.
Shades of grey only enter the matter when an agenda seems to be pushed.
Rousey was given their big push, because she is a once in a generation athlete, if she leaves, that entire womens MMA falls back into obscurity. There is no other real star for womens MMA. There are no Lita's or Trish Stratus' in pro wrestling these days.
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Post by Zekey on Mar 4, 2015 20:56:29 GMT -5
Emma and Paige were Lita and Trish. Sasha and Charlotte are Lita and Trish. But when they're called down to the main roster they aren't given good storylines or time to tell stories in the ring. Hence the hashtag #GiveDivasAChance
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Mar 4, 2015 22:51:53 GMT -5
Emma and Paige have offered nothing but being foreigners, Paige was given the title as soon as she debuted, let's pretend it everybody eles fault and she was set up to fail because it fits the narrative. But the fact of the matter is she had spotlight on her and the light burned her instead of her shining. Emma was nothing but a comedic character in NXT, let's not pretend she was any different than her debut. She had a goofy hand dance, and she was paired with Santino in NXT against Fandango and Summer Rae, the exact same thing was done for her Raw debut and it didn't catch on......stop overrating NXT, because that crowd loves EVERYTHING that is done down there, and the main roster is nitpicked with a fine tooth comb, not just by WWE brass, but more so people who frequent forums and belong to Twitter and Facebook groups.
You can't rewrite recent history, we all saw it.
they were never even close to being Trish and Lita......Trish and Lita were hits right off the bat, they were given stupid shit and they never got lost in the shuffle, infact they became bigger stars than the guys they were paired up with.
It's almost ridiculous how being jaded causes warped history.
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Post by Zekey on Mar 4, 2015 23:40:22 GMT -5
Lita and Trish dealt with 3 minute matches too. I give credit to them for mastering the art of the 3 minute classic and the distraction roll-up finish.
Emma's debut was a dance contest in front of a non-smart crowd. And her goofyness was all the "WWE UNIVERSE" was exposed to never her wrestling ability. She would do an Emma sandwich Cole and JBL talked about Australia and before u know it the match is over. 7 out of 10 times the match was against Summer/Fandango. Has an Emma singles match ever went longer than 3 minutes? On Raw*. There was no 6-month plan as Good Ole JR would say.
The pop Paige got on her debut legitimized her. Thankfully her debut was done in front of wrestling fans (not middle america "WWE Universe") Paige was actually handled well. Always kept in the main event picture. Despite 3 minute matches she's prospered. Becoming champion leaves nowhere to improve but she's still over/popular.
Emma v Paige was what I thought would be the next great women's rivalry like Trish and Lita. That's all I meant by the comparison. Being jaded doesn't warp my view on history. They were always 3 minute matches. EDIT: My point is its the system not the wrestlers.
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Mar 5, 2015 13:57:24 GMT -5
WWE Divas Champion Nikki Bella recently spoke with Mark Madden on 105.9 in Pittsburgh. They discussed AJ Lee's WWE return, the 30-second RAW match that led to "#GiveDivasAChance" trending and more. Thanks to Diva-Dirt for the following highlights:
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Post by rinaldo on Mar 5, 2015 14:15:21 GMT -5
She's in the first wives club. What do you expect? Content to be on TV making money and not really caring two shits about such issues as the role of women as strong indivuals, blablabla... which I second because, despite all the bullshit from Steph O Mac about Divas being great role models, they're all basically booked as idiots. Only thing is they're not stripping to their bras anymore because it's not PG but it's still the same old crap.
And Trish was overrated IMO. She's not a great worker. She's basically decent in a sea of crappy, stereotypical Divas. Have a cookie but the comparisions between her and, say, Manami Toyota, are absurd.
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Post by Milky on Mar 5, 2015 16:11:48 GMT -5
Deezy, I think you are the one re-writing history. Trish and Lita were indeed given a lot of shit to work with, but I wouldn’t say they never got lost in the shuffle. They did. In fact, I’d say they got over despite the scripts they were given, which is admirable but should not be the way it has to be done. Think of how much better Trish could have been if she wasn’t involved with barking like a dog or doing other such ridiculous storylines.
Also, Zekey, I disagree with Paige’s debut being good. Winning the title in your debut match is not a good build. She did the best she could but that angle was set up to fail. It’s always better when the babyface has to chase a bit, and when the audience has time to become familiar with a new character. It’s really the story leading up to the win that gets a character over, not winning the title itself. That should be the culmination.
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Post by rinaldo on Mar 5, 2015 16:25:40 GMT -5
Upste wins are good every once in a while. Think of The 123 Kid pinning Razor Ramon in '93. Of course Waltman was more seasoned in '93 than Paige was when she won the title but you get my point. The barking thing with Trish was what it was but, when you follow it, it ended up with Trish getting her Revenge on Vince: Storytelling. Nowadays angles get dropped just like that. Not the same thing.
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Mar 5, 2015 17:13:26 GMT -5
My goodness, it's like people don't subscribe into the whole "cream rises to the top" anymore. People cry for these supposedly talented people who had a roadblock and that's why they never got to where we all wanted them to.....when it's just a bullshit excuse when you look at people like Miz who was the last guy to actually pay real dues and given nothing, but taken his way into a Wrestlemania mainevent and won. Are we supposed to act like he is just that much better than the supposedly "buried" IWC faves who never got there yet?
What AJ Lee said was inaccurate when it comes to "record merch" sales and a company is supposed to hand a select group of their employees all this time and effort when they don't bring in anywhere near the same as the people who earned their push by being legit draws?
What about the lower tier guys like a Heath Slater, Titus O'Neil, Darren Young? They don't get any push, are we supposed to just push them the same and give them the same type of money to top acts because that would be fair? How is it fair to anyone to pay someone for doing and bringing in less than the people who are actually filling the buildings?
Typical entitled millennial logic. Expect the world without knowing or wanting to do the work that goes with it.
And can someone answer me why the crowd immediately chanting for CM Punk when AJ made her illustrious comeback?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 20:21:01 GMT -5
Guys I don't get it. Is she saying that women draw more than men, but they're on less TV time even if they have their own show?
The McMahons are retarded NYCers. Like royalty forcing all the peasants to fight for their enjoyment. They get off on denying fans what they want except for Mania.
Biggest mistake was making VKM a character. Now all his kids, his family, his grand kids, great grand kids will forever be on TV tainting the product.
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