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Post by rinaldo on Feb 26, 2015 19:36:04 GMT -5
Personally, I just loved Steph's reply of "Thank you for your opinion" loll Which was a mutual decision only after someone from the staff suggested sending the Iron Sheik to break her leg would have been a bad pr move.
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Feb 26, 2015 20:06:03 GMT -5
Bur what AJ said wasn't bullshit?
Record merch sales? Highest rated segments? I mean, it does go both ways, can't just pretend one side is always in the right here.
Why exactly would anyone pay someone the same money as actual draws when they don't provide the same profits? Curtis ?Axel trended last week, does tht mean he should get Cena money?
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Post by Hacksaw Jim Powers on Feb 26, 2015 20:19:56 GMT -5
It wouldn't surprise me if AJ's Love Bites shirt is the best-selling t-shirt any female on the roster's ever had. The ratings bit...let's just get Meltzer to crunch the numbers on that one for us.
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Post by Zekey on Feb 26, 2015 21:49:53 GMT -5
The Divas segment formula
-Commercial break
-Short length divas match
-Micheal Cole plugs something
-Backstage segment
-Commercial Break
So yes when a divas segment is being sandwiched in with a John Cena or Daniel Bryan interview they could have the highest rated segments. Look at this week with the man called Sting video. Same segment.
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Post by Milky on Feb 28, 2015 17:06:23 GMT -5
Zekey pretty much nails it.
We've seen how merchandise sales are directly affected by on-air booking, so you can't really blame the Divas for not being over because they haven't been given a fair crack. Imagine if John Cena's segments were swapped with AJ Lee's. I'm sure we'd see completely different trajectories again.
AJ is right when she says the Divas deserve more air time. I can't speak about the pay because I don't know the numbers, but I can imagine that the Divas probably deserve more than whatever they're getting too.
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Feb 28, 2015 20:25:15 GMT -5
AJ Lee was given tons of TV time, when she was paired with Cena, CM Punk and Daniel Bryan for over a year and she was part of the ratings gainer club that year, than she went solo and returned to the ratings killer club.
What exactly am I missing?
Also, I can compare the Divas title with the IC and US titles and see that the Divas get far more angles and feuds than those titles. To me, this feels like a kneejerk reaction to the fact that Total Divas carry the Raw shows instead of say.....the IWC faves like an Emma for some reason.
I don't like this "equality" argument because for the most part it's bullshit. The numbers used for it,are far too broad because it counts trades and jobs that have an oceans wide gap between them. Ofcourse a male dominated industry like oil, mining and forestry can't compare to women dominated industries.
If a female ditchdigger makes less than her male counterpart, there is an argument, but if there is a money drawing industry, you shouldn't get a token rate for earning far less than the top earners.
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Post by Milky on Mar 1, 2015 8:03:30 GMT -5
AJ Lee was given tons of TV time, when she was paired with Cena, CM Punk and Daniel Bryan for over a year and she was part of the ratings gainer club that year, than she went solo and returned to the ratings killer club. What exactly am I missing? Also, I can compare the Divas title with the IC and US titles and see that the Divas get far more angles and feuds than those titles. To me, this feels like a kneejerk reaction to the fact that Total Divas carry the Raw shows instead of say.....the IWC faves like an Emma for some reason. I don't like this "equality" argument because for the most part it's bullshit. The numbers used for it,are far too broad because it counts trades and jobs that have an oceans wide gap between them. Ofcourse a male dominated industry like oil, mining and forestry can't compare to women dominated industries. If a female ditchdigger makes less than her male counterpart, there is an argument, but if there is a money drawing industry, you shouldn't get a token rate for earning far less than the top earners. It's not just strict air time, but also how the Divas Division is promoted in general. Ronda Rousey is a pretty big draw for the UFC. The Divas in NXT are a pretty big draw too. Even the Knockouts in TNA are a draw. There are fundamental problems with the WWE (Raw) product that go beyond pay and promo time, but those two issues are certainly symptoms of the larger problem. Your argument about women in other industries not making the same as their male counterparts is also inaccurate. Women generally do earn less than men, especially in male-oriented industries/positions. This, however, does not excuse the fact that it's happening with the Divas too. Change has to start somewhere and it might as well be in the WWE where, strangely, there are actually women in powerful enough positions to foster change if they so desired.
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Mar 1, 2015 14:35:45 GMT -5
I've worked in Fort MacMurray, and I've worked in the mines in Northern BC, the few women who were doing the same stuff as I was didn't make less, the administrative ones did because they weren't doing the same job as I was......That's the entire problem with those studies, they equate work that shouldn't equate.
Interest of fairness would be a pay scale for the money drawn by a performer, but again....we could pretend that "record sales" of a diva is the same as say......a top guy. But in reality, "record sales" means they made the most out of their certain group, which would be like saying a Barry Horrowitz made record sales for jobbers when he had a t-shirt than another guy in his position.
Also AJ is like the only three women who had actual merchandise over the past 3 years.
As for Ronda Rousey, let's pretend UFC is pushing her so hard because she draws, not because she is the only one they have who they can market. Because Jon Jones turned heel, Weidmann has no personality, Cain seems stuck on an operating table, Robbie Lawler is plain Jane, Aldo, Pettis, Dillishaw Mighty Mouse.....they don't draw.
I'm willing to bet that Zuffa and UFC will start focusing on Conner MaGregor if her PPV last night didn't what they wanted. And TNA? They did draw, what happened to them was far worse than what WWE did lastweek. I'm also willing to bet that Gail Kim makes far, far less than an Emma.
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Post by Jack Raines on Mar 2, 2015 6:43:42 GMT -5
Interest of fairness would be a pay scale for the money drawn by a performer, but again....we could pretend that "record sales" of a diva is the same as say......a top guy. But in reality, "record sales" means they made the most out of their certain group, which would be like saying a Barry Horrowitz made record sales for jobbers when he had a t-shirt than another guy in his position. I'm pretty sure AJ's "Love Bites" t-shirt was the legit 3rd or 4th top selling t-shirt overall and consistently in the top 10 for months after it was released.
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Post by groovyphoenix on Mar 2, 2015 14:35:43 GMT -5
Without looking at numbers overall, because I agree females are not getting the same viewership results etc, and yes, they may have been involved in some high ratings generators or not... Really it isn't tons relevant.
when 180 minutes are used to promote wrestling, and in that 180 minutes 30 seconds are given to the female talent, how can you possibly compare it? the percentage of airtime vs the revenue they generate can speak volumes. If you (I'm just making up numbers here no actual number) if you give them say 1 minute of airtime per 200, that's .50% of your total airtime, comparatively, if they say generate 20% of your income in merchandise sales, and costing you 10%, they are more then paying their fair share and should then be rewarded. Let's just think yes I realise I'm throwing false numbers around but let's suppose these were accurate, would an increase say in airtime = more revenue sold and more money needed to pay the Divas? I think the point is valid overall even if the numbers are not my intention is more to say that for Stephanie to expouse how this woman did the right thing and ra ra womens rights advocate and yet treat HER female staff/contactors in the manner she does is hypocrisy, which is what AJ was saying.
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Post by Milky on Mar 2, 2015 16:05:34 GMT -5
Deezy, you’re still missing the fundamental problem; the Divas Division on RAW is not promoted the same way that the Men’s Heavyweight Division on RAW is.
Imagine John Cena having 1 minute filler matches between two Divas main events as a comparison. Would he sell the same merch as he does right now?
As groovyphoenix points out, the Divas are worthy of more of a push than what they’ve been given, and that is the problem. Everything else is just a trickle-down effect of that greater issue. And the fact that you don’t recognize this glass ceiling is also part of the problem. Fans have been conditioned to see the Divas a certain way, which is unfortunate for the Divas.
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Mar 2, 2015 17:35:08 GMT -5
We can pretend like the masses don't prefer men in athletics than women, but it's still right there, how come Ronda Rousey can't do GSP level of PPV buys? She is more dominant, has a better finish ratio, but she can't get over 500k buys.
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Post by Milky on Mar 3, 2015 15:20:58 GMT -5
Because it's not an even playing field.
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Mar 3, 2015 16:24:13 GMT -5
Or maybe the majority of women don't care about sports like men do and don't support it like men do. Fake equality and placating a small minority is bullshit when it comes to supply and demand.....if the demand was high, it should be supplied more than something that doesn't. It's not a social problem, it's an economic problem, hence the fact that this whole #GiveDIvasAChance and that Arquette comment have died down.
Coke Zero is good guys, you should try it......No? But C'monnnnnn it should be the same as regular Coke, it's not fair.....It's not an even playing field.
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Post by paulyesco on Mar 3, 2015 16:52:45 GMT -5
Huhh! I have to stop applying normal people logic to this industry.
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