deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Jan 31, 2015 0:40:41 GMT -5
Sorry I interrupted your 3 post circle jerk and turned it into 2 pages of differing opinion.
Far be it for me to actually drive post count up when before I got here it was a ghost town of a fact checking thread and a weekly feedback thread where guys would just shit on something they continue to watch even if it supposedly drives them crazy.
Funny how people say they are entitled to an opinion until someone comes in with a differing one. Quite hypocritical one would think.
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Post by daltonimperial on Jan 31, 2015 1:25:46 GMT -5
Come on: the nap is how Reigns was booked. It would have been similar had Bryan, Orton, Kane, The Rock, or Austin himself been in Reigns' place with the way that match was laid out (i.e. terribly). The match had way too many guys who did nothing in corners until being cleared out by Kane and the freaking Big Show. What did Ambrose do after his initial rush? About the only thing I remember is them both coming out of their naps (I was more focused on Reigns, but I don't remember much Ambrose activity either) to botch double eliminate Titus in a few seconds. Then they (just like no chances Cesaro and Ryback) charged into Big Show and were easily pushed/knocked away by the Giant. Reigns (unless they told him to stay in the corner because he was bleeding) did the role he was assigned to do; it would have sucked just as much for any fighting babyface being told to do nothing anonymously for about 15 minutes. It would be like saying "Cena can't wrestle because he only landed 2 moves in the Summerslam match." Austin criticized the booking in other ways, including the implausibility of Kane and Show not being able to eliminate Reigns when they outweigh him by almost 3 to 1. It's possible they didn't have Reigns do much because of his limited moveset (you can't just do 10 Superman Punches, and landing a punch without leading to an elimination would make the move look weaker), but I don't remember anyone (including better wrestlers like Cesaro) doing much in the last 15 minutes before Big Show came out and cleared the ring with Kane. Did you listen to the entire podcast (it's a pretty good episode)? Austin (and Keller) in general was supportive of Reigns potentially being a #1 guy in the future, but this was not the first time either have said Reigns isn't ready/needs to develop more. Both were critical of him not further developing his moveset/having good long singles matches ("a body of work") and not connecting with the audience of late. No, Reigns isn't ready, and maybe his attitude as indicated in the quotes in the post that started this thread might explain why he hasn't developed a more complete moveset/the ability to have longer matches/tell a good story in the ring. But to point to two soundbytes from Austin as "proof" that you are correct is just lazy. How many major wrestling writers or wrestlers have said "Reigns is completely ready"? Anyone? That he isn't ready isn't new or controversial. At the same time, I can't believe there is no one he trusts/listens to/respects that has told him "Roman, you've got to get better in the ring and do more to connect with the fans" which means he might be ignoring that person(s) or is simply unable to improve as a wrestler (he is almost 30, as opposed to a youngster like Rock at the time of Die Rocky Die). And the issue on Monday is what HHH shows up: NXT HHH, Authority HHH, Paul Levesque, corporate shill HHH? Because HHH the Authority character should bury Reigns because he is anti-Authority, corporate HHH should protect him because he is a potential future star for the company (meaning he really shouldn't bury anyone who can potentially make the company money), or he might just pull jokey DX Hunter and tell jokes.
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JN
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Post by JN on Jan 31, 2015 2:06:55 GMT -5
Yeah, I listened to the entire podcast when it was made available. I really did enjoy it too, but I actually got more of an impression that they were both being extremely critical of Roman as a worker than you think is there. They seemed to only praise the notion that they see potential in WHY he's being made into the superstar that he is...not that he's deserving of it. I mean they even mentioned how Philadelphia should love this guy which I took is basically he's got that marketable look...but his in ring ability and bad promos might have hurt his character long term. Sure, a lot of Roman's issues had to do with the booking in the Rumble...but there was just a lot wrong with the match over all. They were critical of his performance, as they should've been...because it wasn't impressive.
No Stone Cold's opinions aren't the end all, be all....but when you have someone outside of the company who is such a well respected ring technician questioning the same thing as the audience...it's certainly interesting for sure.
lol deezy.
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Jan 31, 2015 3:52:40 GMT -5
Most of the supposed head lining statements from the Austin podcast were from Keller, who is as deaf, dumb and blind as his namesake. And trolls wrestlers who call him out on it.
Austin did say he was a work in progress, he gave him some advice, and like Reigns said in statement that started this thread.....he will listen and get better as a result.
Belee Dat
Or was I supposed to say "Austin doesn't like his life"?
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Post by daltonimperial on Jan 31, 2015 9:31:09 GMT -5
We have such different perspectives/don't seem to be connecting that I'll leave this thread. Nothing in my post praised Roman as a worker, either what I think or what they said. I said both were critical of Reigns work/moveset/"a body of work" and then said that I personally didn't think he had developed a good moveset (10 Superman punches doesn't work)/have longer matches/tell a good story in the ring and couldn't believe that someone he respected hadn't said, "Roman, you need to get better in the ring" (which I thought clearly implied that I did not thing Roman was good or even OK in the ring). Roman's potential in my eyes (and I think in theirs) was primarily his look/presence, nothing to do with his workrate. Not only did I criticize his workrate, I said he wasn't connecting with the fans with the corny promos. How you got that to mean they "were both more extremely critical of his work than I thought was there" is baffling. What makes a wrestler? Work, fan connection, and look/presence are my three basic criteria. I criticized the first two. Keller has (justifiably) been bashing his moveset for a while, and Austin has criticized moves for a while (he even came as close as he could to telling Cena to do better on the STF when Cena was a guest on his podcast).
And we don't need a ring technician to point out Reigns' in-ring deficiencies. Wasn't that your entire point of criticizing Reigns for not caring what non-wrestlers think (which implies that he only would care if a wrestler said something)? Yeah, a plumber can tell me my toilet is clogged, but I probably figured that out myself first, which is why I called the plumber!
You are seeing what you want to see and hearing what you want to hear with Reigns (whether from Reigns himself or from people who don't completely share your opinion). Nothing wrong with wanting the guy in your avatar to get what he deserves, but this thread is not what I thought it was. Good luck.
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Post by groovyphoenix on Jan 31, 2015 11:57:51 GMT -5
Sorry I interrupted your 3 post circle jerk and turned it into 2 pages of differing opinion. Far be it for me to actually drive post count up when before I got here it was a ghost town of a fact checking thread and a weekly feedback thread where guys would just shit on something they continue to watch even if it supposedly drives them crazy. Funny how people say they are entitled to an opinion until someone comes in with a differing one. Quite hypocritical one would think. No see here is teh difference, you're entriely allowed to have an opinion and express it, Not once did I bash you however or say (or give the impression) that "I'm nuts" or "I'm a hater" or "My opinion is INVALID" and then try to brow beat that you are correct. I presented MY point of view in a clear concise manner and let it be at that, you attacked me then said beating yoru chest most probably that your opinion was the be all and end all and because I wasn't a wrestler I wasn't allowed to have an opinion. You proceed to basically dismiss any opinion I had (or anyone else for that matter) even though while you're right my "indy circuit experience" could not POSSIBLY compare in scope to the WWE you bashed the fact I HAD experience by totally dismissing it. I wasn't "flashing it" I was just stating facts I worked 6 years with indy, is it the WWe and their production value and their 50 writters? No, and you know what? That's probably WHY it doesn't suck! And romans reigns is a fucking hypocrite to say he doesn't listen to "non wrestlers" when he's spewing line per line what "hollywood writers" who have NEVER been in a ring for more then 2 minutes to drop off a script for them to read yet he sure spews their shit like its gold. Go back in your hole... You single handedly brought this place life? Bullshit, you got here about same time I did and you posted same as others did and you've been bashing since day one. I wouldn't miss you and the place wouldn't die a slow death. It took a while for LAW board to grow in popularity but I think it's pretty well off these days so don't pat yourself on the back too hard Mr. Horrowitz. Mark613 won't tell you but I know who he is and what he promotes, and lemme tell you he puts on one of the best indy feds in Ottawa area that draws over 250 people every show. He EARNED his stripes and HAS qualifications to speak a HELL of a lot more. But you're right, he's no Vinnie Mac, he listens to his talent, doesn't have a writting crew. Works hard to produce and provide a good product to his fans, and really? What is it you do again? Oh yeah, you're a keyboard warrior who thinks he's king shit of this board that single handedly revived the board? You're what 10? Cuz you sure act like it. BTW: By your statements John Pollock, Wai Ting and Dan and the others also have no right to an opinion, when did they step in the ring? Yet funny how they are respected by talent and yes probably used for their benefit (talent in interviews etc) but they never wrestled so they know nothing either! Never mind the wht... 199X is when the show started on LAW using freaking Real Audio... (and yes I have been listening that long) but it doesn't matter, We're shitting on it? No I sit here watching a show and watch it shit on us and you know what? You're RIGHT I do sometimes wonder WHY THE FUCK am I still watching this garbage?!?! Because... Every now and then, a single nugget one little turd floats to the top and keeps me entertained. As much as John and Wai didn't like the "Clique" things as being immature humor, it made me look back to the days when "you had to watch" and I hope against all hope that Vinnie hasn't lost his touch and that he's just waiting for something to click and hopefully entertain me again. The sad truth is though he's getting older, the show isn't improving too much and the little nuggets? They are getting pushed down so the huge turds can be floating in the cesspool that is the current product. WWE NxT is the best thing going in WWE right now because it's being looked after by HHH and I'll give him props, his baby is growing into something that is quite positive.
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JN
Mid-Carder
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Posts: 325
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Post by JN on Jan 31, 2015 12:15:46 GMT -5
We have such different perspectives/don't seem to be connecting that I'll leave this thread. Nothing in my post praised Roman as a worker, either what I think or what they said. I said both were critical of Reigns work/moveset/"a body of work" and then said that I personally didn't think he had developed a good moveset (10 Superman punches doesn't work)/have longer matches/tell a good story in the ring and couldn't believe that someone he respected hadn't said, "Roman, you need to get better in the ring" (which I thought clearly implied that I did not thing Roman was good or even OK in the ring). Roman's potential in my eyes (and I think in theirs) was primarily his look/presence, nothing to do with his workrate. Not only did I criticize his workrate, I said he wasn't connecting with the fans with the corny promos. How you got that to mean they "were both more extremely critical of his work than I thought was there" is baffling. What makes a wrestler? Work, fan connection, and look/presence are my three basic criteria. I criticized the first two. Keller has (justifiably) been bashing his moveset for a while, and Austin has criticized moves for a while (he even came as close as he could to telling Cena to do better on the STF when Cena was a guest on his podcast). And we don't need a ring technician to point out Reigns' in-ring deficiencies. Wasn't that your entire point of criticizing Reigns for not caring what non-wrestlers think (which implies that he only would care if a wrestler said something)? Yeah, a plumber can tell me my toilet is clogged, but I probably figured that out myself first, which is why I called the plumber! You are seeing what you want to see and hearing what you want to hear with Reigns (whether from Reigns himself or from people who don't completely share your opinion). Nothing wrong with wanting the guy in your avatar to get what he deserves, but this thread is not what I thought it was. Good luck. I understand what you're getting at and perhaps maybe your words originally came across 10 hours ago in a way that seemed like the two hosts were praising his work more, but that's on me. You and I are actually agreeing on a majority of what we're saying, besides that little hiccup...so it's not like we're completely off course here. My post was bringing attention to what some are feeling like his sense of entitlement based on his attitude towards his rocket pack and Austin, someone who I mentioned is a ring technician because he's incredibly respected in his work, brought up his probable attitude as well as the obvious knocks at him about his ability...which I also mentioned in my first post.
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Jan 31, 2015 14:08:45 GMT -5
Sorry I interrupted your 3 post circle jerk and turned it into 2 pages of differing opinion. Far be it for me to actually drive post count up when before I got here it was a ghost town of a fact checking thread and a weekly feedback thread where guys would just shit on something they continue to watch even if it supposedly drives them crazy. Funny how people say they are entitled to an opinion until someone comes in with a differing one. Quite hypocritical one would think. No see here is teh difference, you're entriely allowed to have an opinion and express it, Not once did I bash you however or say (or give the impression) that "I'm nuts" or "I'm a hater" or "My opinion is INVALID" and then try to brow beat that you are correct. I presented MY point of view in a clear concise manner and let it be at that, you attacked me then said beating yoru chest most probably that your opinion was the be all and end all and because I wasn't a wrestler I wasn't allowed to have an opinion. You proceed to basically dismiss any opinion I had (or anyone else for that matter) even though while you're right my "indy circuit experience" could not POSSIBLY compare in scope to the WWE you bashed the fact I HAD experience by totally dismissing it. I wasn't "flashing it" I was just stating facts I worked 6 years with indy, is it the WWe and their production value and their 50 writters? No, and you know what? That's probably WHY it doesn't suck! And romans reigns is a fucking hypocrite to say he doesn't listen to "non wrestlers" when he's spewing line per line what "hollywood writers" who have NEVER been in a ring for more then 2 minutes to drop off a script for them to read yet he sure spews their shit like its gold. Go back in your hole... You single handedly brought this place life? Bullshit, you got here about same time I did and you posted same as others did and you've been bashing since day one. I wouldn't miss you and the place wouldn't die a slow death. It took a while for LAW board to grow in popularity but I think it's pretty well off these days so don't pat yourself on the back too hard Mr. Horrowitz. Mark613 won't tell you but I know who he is and what he promotes, and lemme tell you he puts on one of the best indy feds in Ottawa area that draws over 250 people every show. He EARNED his stripes and HAS qualifications to speak a HELL of a lot more. But you're right, he's no Vinnie Mac, he listens to his talent, doesn't have a writting crew. Works hard to produce and provide a good product to his fans, and really? What is it you do again? Oh yeah, you're a keyboard warrior who thinks he's king shit of this board that single handedly revived the board? You're what 10? Cuz you sure act like it. BTW: By your statements John Pollock, Wai Ting and Dan and the others also have no right to an opinion, when did they step in the ring? Yet funny how they are respected by talent and yes probably used for their benefit (talent in interviews etc) but they never wrestled so they know nothing either! Never mind the wht... 199X is when the show started on LAW using freaking Real Audio... (and yes I have been listening that long) but it doesn't matter, We're shitting on it? No I sit here watching a show and watch it shit on us and you know what? You're RIGHT I do sometimes wonder WHY THE FUCK am I still watching this garbage?!?! Because... Every now and then, a single nugget one little turd floats to the top and keeps me entertained. As much as John and Wai didn't like the "Clique" things as being immature humor, it made me look back to the days when "you had to watch" and I hope against all hope that Vinnie hasn't lost his touch and that he's just waiting for something to click and hopefully entertain me again. The sad truth is though he's getting older, the show isn't improving too much and the little nuggets? They are getting pushed down so the huge turds can be floating in the cesspool that is the current product. WWE NxT is the best thing going in WWE right now because it's being looked after by HHH and I'll give him props, his baby is growing into something that is quite positive. to;dr I can get how people on The Law do this, it's their job. They get paid to cover this shit, never understood how fans think they have to as well. I said I would listen to a carpenter over a guy who watches TV shows because actual experience trumps observations. I'm not sure why all of a sudden words from Austin were made out to be some of kind of smoking gun, because it didn't go against anything I said initially. Also acting like you know how to build a shed is the same as building houses, or noticing a limp as opposed to knowing why the horse limps shows how you didn't get it.
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Post by groovyphoenix on Jan 31, 2015 15:08:44 GMT -5
to;dr I can get how people on The Law do this, it's their job. They get paid to cover this shit, never understood how fans think they have to as well. I said I would listen to a carpenter over a guy who watches TV shows because actual experience trumps observations. I'm not sure why all of a sudden words from Austin were made out to be some of kind of smoking gun, because it didn't go against anything I said initially. Also acting like you know how to build a shed is the same as building houses, or noticing a limp as opposed to knowing why the horse limps shows how you didn't get it. 1) Id your not gonna read the whole text, don't bother respojnding since you miss half my points. 2) Building a SHED is the same prinicipal as building a house, obviously you've never built something up to code, and you don't KNOW me so don't think you do. 3) So because it's their JOB they are qualified? Is that it? Man you such a hypcrite. What makes THEM more knowledgeable? Have they been in ther ing? Did they battle it out? Take trainining in wrestling to make them more knowledgeable? How fo you define qualified? Because theyg et paid to commentate and offer guess what theri OPINIONS on a show they watched, they have more "right" or theirs matter more? You're so full of shit dude.
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Jan 31, 2015 18:53:28 GMT -5
1) Id your not gonna read the whole text, don't bother respojnding since you miss half my points. 2) Building a SHED is the same prinicipal as building a house, obviously you've never built something up to code, and you don't KNOW me so don't think you do. 3) So because it's their JOB they are qualified? Is that it? Man you such a hypcrite. What makes THEM more knowledgeable? Have they been in ther ing? Did they battle it out? Take trainining in wrestling to make them more knowledgeable? How fo you define qualified? Because theyg et paid to commentate and offer guess what theri OPINIONS on a show they watched, they have more "right" or theirs matter more? You're so full of shit dude. The fact that you think building a shed is the same principal as a house tells me everything. Building code prerequisite does not mean the amount of time and effort is the same, nor the costs or materials are the same or the layout is the same. A house is something with four walls no insulation or partitions? No basement that requires foundation footings or concrete slabs, or load bearing walls or multiple means of egress? Nah its just like a shed. Now who's being arrogant? I'll take the word of a red seal than a guy telling me on the Internet. Which was my entire point to begin with.
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Post by groovyphoenix on Jan 31, 2015 21:25:37 GMT -5
The fact that you think building a shed is the same principal as a house tells me everything. Building code prerequisite does not mean the amount of time and effort is the same, nor the costs or materials are the same or the layout is the same. A house is something with four walls no insulation or partitions? No basement that requires foundation footings or concrete slabs, or load bearing walls or multiple means of egress? Nah its just like a shed. Now who's being arrogant? I'll take the word of a red seal than a guy telling me on the Internet. Which was my entire point to begin with. No you've been trying to say I said it was the same when I didn't what I was wa the same PRINCIPALS apply, A car and a truck are two different beasts but they both have a motor, 4 tires (and the spare) and roll the same way on the road. They drive differently and have different weights and different requirements but the PRINCIAP of motion is the same, they will roll on four wheels. A shed has 4 walls, you build them 16 inches off center or if you want "super strong" you could build it 12 inches off center but it's overkill. You put in a door, with hinges, a window a roof, eitehr flat (with a slant) or a peak depending on how fancy you want. the PRINCIAP of it is the same. I guess you COULD put in a root cellar underneath and it would count as a "Cellar" but again thats overkill. I have also built a shed with insulation and HEAT because I used that shed to WORK in the winter time, it had a CONCRETE floor too! Oh my, so is it really all that different? I guess not,because the house inspector that came to pass the inspection on my structure that I built with my mother passed with flying colors, incluridng the wiring and the insultation and imagine that I did a decent job! NOT all houses have basements either, some have crawlspaces and some have NO basement at all. Imagine that! See not all are built the same. Ignorance as you show it amazes me do us all a favour if this is your "contribution" to the conversation shut the hell up because you have proven you are ignorant. You also love to ignore it when your "opinion" is rebuked with facts, you failed to answer why John and Wai etc are qualified to offer their opinion but I am not. So? When are you going to just shut up and stop showing your ignorance...
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Feb 1, 2015 1:35:59 GMT -5
Go build a house and tell me it's the same.
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Post by Gee Hall on Feb 1, 2015 3:15:42 GMT -5
Does Deezy ever come here and not try to rile people up? Just curious.
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Feb 1, 2015 3:50:52 GMT -5
Only when people blindly agree with him since he is the all knowing apparently.
Don't label people and maybe they won't don the hat.
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