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Post by El Peregrino on May 27, 2012 12:12:58 GMT -5
I'm just not a fan of subjective morality if you will, especially in regards to free speech. It is just my opinion though. It's a thorny issue though. The flag thing seems very excessive of course, but there are other laws which do censor things that I would agree with - laws against pedophilia and content relating to that act are completely justified. Extreme racism is another thing which I think shouldn't be defended for under free speech. I remember reading an article a while back where someone made a comment which I felt I agree with - Free speech is fine as long as you are not deliberately and knowingly offending someone else. I would agree with El Peregrino though - if you visit a country you have to respect their laws. Otherwise just stay away. I'm not a fan of other people trying to impose their laws in another country but if I'm in their country I'll respect their culture. And thats the key thing - it really is all about respect. For other people. In Jerichos case I dont think he, Chris Irvine, was showing disrespect I think he was simply potraying a bad guy, Chris Jericho, who WAS showing disrespect. But he is a work of fiction. The problem wrestling sometimes has is that it's always trying to blur the line between reality and fantasy. If a bad guy in a movie did what Jericho did, I dont think there would be the same out cry Great point about the movie. The WWE is a performance. Very much like a play, and definitely should not be subjected to the laws as if the actions are genuine. I mean otherwise, every wrestler would be arrested for assault. It's a performance. R-Truth ran into a similar situation as Jericho when he lit up a cigarette in England (which is illegal in the UK). Fans were chanting "that's illegal", but it wasn't actually illegal since it was under the guise of a performance. Ron Killings could not light up a cigarette backstage, but R-Truth can in front of millions of people on TV to add to the show. I highly doubt Jericho would've had to face any legal repercussions from the Brazilian government had he refused to apologize, other than a short stint in jail while the situation gets handled. This was all a PR move by the WWE to suspend Jericho. Linda McMahon is running a campaign that could be crucial for the WWE and they are not going to take any chances. (see Daniel Bryan's firing during Linda's last campaign)
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Post by Andrew MacDonald on May 27, 2012 13:15:26 GMT -5
Censorship of pedophilia is different though. It's something that actually harms someone. The child. There are certainly limits to free speech and free expression, no question. You can't shout fire in a crowded room. It can cause real harm and that person is directly causing harm.
Kicking a flag harms nobody. Now it can be argued that it can harm the people who are victims of violence, but they didn't directly cause it. It's like that guy who wanted to burn the Koran. Sure, book burning is generally frowned upon (and if done in a very public place can be a severe fire hazard) but any violence that comes from that is done by the people reacting. They weren't forced into that. And people wouldn't be forced to react violently if a flag was kicked.
Which didn't happen anyway. People didn't care, it was part of a show and they wanted a show. I'm interested though on people's thoughts if some random person kicked a flag knowingly or unknowingly. Was the law put into place out of pride? Or was it to stop people from acting violently.
In regards to respecting a culture, here's my issue with that. Brazil is not a good example, as there are other countries that take offense to stuff done to the flag. But should I respect the culture of those that circumcises women? Who kill people for being gay? Who force women to wear a particular set of clothing? There are ideals and cultures that are simply better. To me, a culture in which we all have free expression, as long as it doesn't directly harm someone or take away from their rights is a better culture then one that isn't like that.
One big reason I feel offending someone isn't cause for harm is people could be offended by being told facts or good opinions and say those should be banned. Or that offends me like kicking a flag does.
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Post by Dave Power on May 27, 2012 19:03:35 GMT -5
But should I respect the culture of those that circumcises women? Who kill people for being gay? Who force women to wear a particular set of clothing? There are ideals and cultures that are simply better. . The problem there is who decides. I personally agree with everything you've said but I shouldnt be expected to impose my beliefs and morals onto another culture. If they come into my culture thats a different story. Thats how societies generally come about - like minded people attracted to each other. In the examples you make, there is usually sincere justification in the minds of those that practice them. As sickening as that is to you or me.
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Jay
Mid-Carder
YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE MY FRIEND!!!
Posts: 374
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Post by Jay on May 27, 2012 21:07:39 GMT -5
A heel did a well known heel move that's known around the world, could've been arrested for it? Don't people do far worse to those flags during "soccer" games?
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Post by Patrick J on May 27, 2012 22:15:42 GMT -5
WWE policy: act like a heel but if the reaction is negative we'll distance ourselves from you.
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Post by David Zgurski on May 28, 2012 14:47:07 GMT -5
I just think that it says a lot more about the lack of crass nationalism in Canadians that we can at least tolerate someone like Michaels desecrating the Canadian flag and not get violent and belligerent about it. A lot more acceptance of freedom of speech. I'm loyal to the principles that the flag is supposed to represent, not to the coloured rag itself. If Canada doesn't represent those principles anymore, I cease to be a "patriotic" Canadian, and I start fighting for Canada to represent those principles again. Brazilians should calm down.
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ciaranhexcel
Curtain Jerker
Objection! IT WAS ME FACEBOOK, IT WAS ME ALL ALONG!
Posts: 102
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Post by ciaranhexcel on May 28, 2012 16:58:31 GMT -5
At an Ireland WWE house show, Kurt Angle VS John Cena, Kurt wiped his ass with the Irish flag. Epic heat! But no one was extremely offended.
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