deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Apr 4, 2017 11:58:31 GMT -5
Plus the one match they did have neither man beat the other so there's still that hanging over them both. Being a rematch of a great match doesn't hurt either, has a big fight feel to it.....No matter what people online try to say. Fact is, Reigns is the number one mech mover among the full time roster and had the longest lines at fan axxess. Pretending to want a guy like Balor vs Brock is just a snack in the face of anyone who has ever watched combat sports. Sorry, spamming dropkicks and posing isn't the same as being Royce Gracie and knowing a fighting technique that no one knew about.
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Post by Christian Small on Apr 4, 2017 12:36:47 GMT -5
It's sadly overlooked by the fact Rollins cashed in on it. What also helps is that after that match they haven't done the rematch or teased it until last nights Raw. It's still very early for us to all judge this potential match as it is just that right now. We have to remember that a lot can happen in a year.
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Post by groovyphoenix on Apr 17, 2017 9:09:49 GMT -5
I don't mind long range booking, as long as its not set in stone and can't change.
Frankly Reigns belongs as a heel, that smug look on his face, the reaction when fans were booing him on Monday Raw after WM was amazing, it's the most "comfortable" he has looked in a long time.
If anything Reigns seemed to be enjoying the boo's hes expression was "Yeah man, they hate me" but not in a bad way, when I watch a movie or a story I don't "hate" the bad guy I love the fact the bad guy is playing his role.
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Post by Christian Small on Apr 17, 2017 12:02:46 GMT -5
A lot of guys find that comfort level when put into a heel role. They get to play around with their character and not worrying about pleasing the fans, in fact they want the opposite. Back to this point, the example people tend to go to is the plan for Wrestlemania 5 starting at 4 but back then they only had 3 PPV's in-between those shows and both men weren't all over the TV. We live in an age where we get 2 PPV's a month and 5 hours of "main show" TV to fill with no real jobber matches. A lot can change in all that time.
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sluggo
Curtain Jerker
Posts: 145
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Post by sluggo on Apr 18, 2017 14:53:59 GMT -5
If this is their plan, they should re-order Raw to be similar to what the WWE was in the 80's and mid-90's. Brett Hart said when he became a singles star in WWF he only wanted to win the IC belt cause that was the belt for the workers while the Heavy Weight belt was for big guys who were more spectacle then substance.
Unoffically the Universal title division should be - Lesnar, Strowman, Big show, Reigns, Big Cass (sooner or later), Sheamus. The giants who can work fine-good 8-15 minute matches (the right match up can go longer) and the IC title division would be made of guys like Balor, Rollins, Ambrose, Caesaro, Crew, Miz, Joe (has the size, but as a worker should be in this group) who are smaller, and will have a hard time convincing WWE higher-ups to let them get wins over the giants, but better workers and can put on great 20-30 minute matches. I just don't see the smaller guys getting pushed to the top of the Universal Title picture with guys like Lesnar, Reigns and Strowman around.
Basically the Hulk Hogan division and the Macho Man division.
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Post by Christian Small on Apr 19, 2017 2:19:26 GMT -5
You're talking about a very different era. Being a giant isn't the draw that it once was. I also wouldn't agree with you lumping Reigns in the giant category. The guy isn't massive by any stretch, he's built great but he doesn't dwarf guys. I look at when Finn Balor debuted on the main roster and beat him, people didn't find that hard to believe at all. Plus size isn't the be all end all that it once was. Guys like Rey Mysterio, CM Punk and Daniel Bryan were some of the smallest WWE have ever hired and they were some of the biggest money makers. Hell even Steve Austin, who was one of if not the biggest money maker for them, wasn't a huge guy in comparison to others.
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sluggo
Curtain Jerker
Posts: 145
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Post by sluggo on Apr 20, 2017 13:06:18 GMT -5
You're talking about a very different era. Being a giant isn't the draw that it once was. I also wouldn't agree with you lumping Reigns in the giant category. The guy isn't massive by any stretch, he's built great but he doesn't dwarf guys. I look at when Finn Balor debuted on the main roster and beat him, people didn't find that hard to believe at all. Plus size isn't the be all end all that it once was. Guys like Rey Mysterio, CM Punk and Daniel Bryan were some of the smallest WWE have ever hired and they were some of the biggest money makers. Hell even Steve Austin, who was one of if not the biggest money maker for them, wasn't a huge guy in comparison to others. First, bring big is still a draw. Look at the interest around Strowman and show, Strowman and lesnar, big cass as a singles guy etc.... However you're missing the point. Booking a smaller guy over a big one still doesn't happen much in wwe. Sure balor got the push on day 1 but they have g had him do the natural story since his return, because they don't want to beat him but won't put him over lesnar. Getting them to push bryan, mystery and punk was like pulling teeth and only punk (of those 3) had a lengthy push , during which you could argue he was only the #2 guy. Not only would unofficial divisions like this give those smaller guys a chance to get pushed, carry a belt and put on show stealing matches, it would help rehab the title.
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Post by thebenjamin on Apr 20, 2017 13:38:48 GMT -5
It's a bad idea to lump all the big guys in the same division because if you do that then they don't really stand out.
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sluggo
Curtain Jerker
Posts: 145
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Post by sluggo on Apr 20, 2017 15:48:06 GMT -5
It's a bad idea to lump all the big guys in the same division because if you do that then they don't really stand out. 1) Its who they are all feuding with right now anyway 2) As I said, it keeps guys like Balor and Rollins and Miz etc... away from them and from becoming fodder for their feats of strength/dominance. As I've pointed out, they haven't touched Balors natural storyline of "I never lost the Universal belt, I want a shot at it" since he's come back when that should been what he said the first night he was back. However to insert him into that picture would mean pitting him against Lesnar, Strowman and Reigns, their reluctance to do that speaks volumnes about their willingness to let a 196lbs wrestler beat one of those guys 1-on-1. Now these aren't hard lines that can over be crossed - and some guys like Caesaro, Wyatt, while I listed them in one or the other, could bounce back and forth.
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Post by Christian Small on Apr 21, 2017 1:43:29 GMT -5
You're talking about a very different era. Being a giant isn't the draw that it once was. I also wouldn't agree with you lumping Reigns in the giant category. The guy isn't massive by any stretch, he's built great but he doesn't dwarf guys. I look at when Finn Balor debuted on the main roster and beat him, people didn't find that hard to believe at all. Plus size isn't the be all end all that it once was. Guys like Rey Mysterio, CM Punk and Daniel Bryan were some of the smallest WWE have ever hired and they were some of the biggest money makers. Hell even Steve Austin, who was one of if not the biggest money maker for them, wasn't a huge guy in comparison to others. First, bring big is still a draw. Look at the interest around Strowman and show, Strowman and lesnar, big cass as a singles guy etc.... However you're missing the point. Booking a smaller guy over a big one still doesn't happen much in wwe. Sure balor got the push on day 1 but they have g had him do the natural story since his return, because they don't want to beat him but won't put him over lesnar. Getting them to push bryan, mystery and punk was like pulling teeth and only punk (of those 3) had a lengthy push , during which you could argue he was only the #2 guy. Not only would unofficial divisions like this give those smaller guys a chance to get pushed, carry a belt and put on show stealing matches, it would help rehab the title. I didn't say it wasn't a draw, I said it isn't the draw it once was. That's probably because they've been so many giants since the 80's that it really isn't that special. Andre was one of the biggest draws in history mainly because there were only a handful of guys who could get close to matching his size. As you mentioned there are a lot of big guys right now so what makes one stand out from the other. Also many of the guys you mentioned are rarely used on TV, Show comes out once a month and Lesnar is even less than that. But that's how giants work best. I bet fans wouldn't care about Lesnar that much if he was German suplexing someone every week on Raw, some are already over the fact that's all he does when he does wrestle a match. I'll concede that Punk wasn't the top guy but who was? Cena and again he isn't a giant man, he's bigger than most but he doesn't dwarf everyone. Punk also did pass Cena in merch sales for a good while so you could argue that he was the top guy. You've also got to think long term. We've likely only got one more year of Lesnar unless he resigns, which I kind of see not happening as he's nearly 40 and made a ton of money. Show is more likely retire before getting any kind of push. Cass isn't ready for a singles run and is probably best in a tag for now. The only real giant I see is Braun and he's more than likely to be one & done if they do the Lesnar match, not ruling out a main event run but probably won't be this year over Lesnar.
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sluggo
Curtain Jerker
Posts: 145
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Post by sluggo on Apr 21, 2017 14:03:26 GMT -5
First, bring big is still a draw. Look at the interest around Strowman and show, Strowman and lesnar, big cass as a singles guy etc.... However you're missing the point. Booking a smaller guy over a big one still doesn't happen much in wwe. Sure balor got the push on day 1 but they have g had him do the natural story since his return, because they don't want to beat him but won't put him over lesnar. Getting them to push bryan, mystery and punk was like pulling teeth and only punk (of those 3) had a lengthy push , during which you could argue he was only the #2 guy. Not only would unofficial divisions like this give those smaller guys a chance to get pushed, carry a belt and put on show stealing matches, it would help rehab the title. I didn't say it wasn't a draw, I said it isn't the draw it once was. That's probably because they've been so many giants since the 80's that it really isn't that special. Andre was one of the biggest draws in history mainly because there were only a handful of guys who could get close to matching his size. As you mentioned there are a lot of big guys right now so what makes one stand out from the other. Also many of the guys you mentioned are rarely used on TV, Show comes out once a month and Lesnar is even less than that. But that's how giants work best. I bet fans wouldn't care about Lesnar that much if he was German suplexing someone every week on Raw, some are already over the fact that's all he does when he does wrestle a match. I'll concede that Punk wasn't the top guy but who was? Cena and again he isn't a giant man, he's bigger than most but he doesn't dwarf everyone. Punk also did pass Cena in merch sales for a good while so you could argue that he was the top guy. You've also got to think long term. We've likely only got one more year of Lesnar unless he resigns, which I kind of see not happening as he's nearly 40 and made a ton of money. Show is more likely retire before getting any kind of push. Cass isn't ready for a singles run and is probably best in a tag for now. The only real giant I see is Braun and he's more than likely to be one & done if they do the Lesnar match, not ruling out a main event run but probably won't be this year over Lesnar. I am. I don't see the "smaller" guys on Raw getting serious main event pushes that would see them getting wins over the big guys they currently have. You keep avoiding that issue - is WWE going to book someone like Balor or Rollins to beating Strowman or Lesnar or Reigns or Big Cass when they do break him off (probably will be sooner rather then later)......? I don't see the aversion people have to (in a year or two, for example) of booking someone like Big Cass as your Universal Champ then Balor as your IC (worker) champ. We know WWE likes its big guys - even look at the Shield the guy they pegged as the face of the WWE was the big one....... - so restablish the IC belt as something important.
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Post by Christian Small on Apr 22, 2017 1:26:44 GMT -5
This is just a case of agree to disagree then.
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sluggo
Curtain Jerker
Posts: 145
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Post by sluggo on Apr 25, 2017 9:32:00 GMT -5
This is just a case of agree to disagree then. and even if you're right about them not having big guys in a years time (which I don't think you are but....) they can always elevate their IC guys to the Universal title at that point (like what happened with Hart and Michaels). Right now - while it looks like the Universal Title picture is the land of giants, give the IC belt to your best workers. On the show.
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Apr 25, 2017 14:17:46 GMT -5
Finn Balor, Kevin Owens and Seth Rollins are giants?
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sluggo
Curtain Jerker
Posts: 145
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Post by sluggo on Apr 25, 2017 14:24:51 GMT -5
Finn Balor, Kevin Owens and Seth Rollins are giants? what are you talking about? You mean because those guys all WERE in the Universal title picture at one point? I agree they WERE. But if the plan is reportedly to do Lesnar/Reigns at Wrestle Mania, no one else is going to get that title for the next year. And it certainly looks like Strowman is being groomed for a big push at that level. They obviously see money in Big Cass as a singles star. There simply isn't room for guys like Rollins and Balor at that top level right now, nor do I see them pushing them over the big guys they've always loved so much. Looking 1-2 years down the road - plan on having Big Cass (universal) and either Balor or Rollins (IC) as your two lead superstars - which wasn't a dissimilar situation to the 80's (Hogan/Macho Man) and early 90's (Hogan/Hart, Nash/Michaels).
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