sluggo
Curtain Jerker
Posts: 145
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Post by sluggo on Aug 26, 2016 12:50:02 GMT -5
I think Nakamura's natural charisma makes up for his English. I remember watching his promo where he faced off with Aries and he made fun of his English, it was so damn charming. His promos work for him and no one else does something similar to him so he stands out, besides like I mentioned that guy has physical charisma pouring out of him and it wins the crowd over. Nakamura's English itself seems pretty excellent from what I've heard, and his accent is only a hindrance if they can't think of anything better for him to do than cut a 20-minute promo. And yes, he's more captivating walking to the ring than most guys are wrestling in it. And please keep him AWAY from the idea of a "we're all Asian, so..." stable. First - as far as I can tell all 4 have the same language issue. They are all ok with English, not great. So putting them together in a stable allows them to share a mouth piece. And having someone speak for him doesn't take away form his natural charisma or mean he can never speak. It just gives him someone better at it to cover that weakness. They are building up Lesner vs Shane, and I think most people would prefer if rather then wrestler himself Shane got a wrestler to represent him in that match - its not because Shane can't work a match, can't do a spot, is unwilling to take a bump etc... but seeing a pro-wrestler is just a better option. Its the samething with Nakamura, Ito, Ibushi and Asuka and a manager. Second - when you form a wrestling stable you need a reason for the wrestlers to "band together". A shared background is often used. Its not a stretch to say the 4 Japanese wrestlers got together.
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Post by Christian Small on Aug 26, 2016 13:10:42 GMT -5
I think Nakamura's natural charisma makes up for his English. I remember watching his promo where he faced off with Aries and he made fun of his English, it was so damn charming. His promos work for him and no one else does something similar to him so he stands out, besides like I mentioned that guy has physical charisma pouring out of him and it wins the crowd over. It's good enough for NXT, and he shouldn't be silent in WWE even with a manager but you need to be able to speak in WWE, at least in the long run. Its basically the same situation Brock Lesner is in. How is it the same as Brock? Brock can cut a promo, whenever they do a sit down interview style for his matches he's fantastic. Yes he has Heyman for the long promos. I'd also like to say that the need to cut an amazing promo every time isn't a must that it once was. WWE just pushed the hell out of Finn Balor & made him the first Universal champ and he isn't an incredible promo. They worked around him and pushed his strengths. There's also the Reigns point, he isn't a good promo at all and WWE pushed the him to WWE champ several times and likely will again in the future.
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Post by kalgoroth on Aug 26, 2016 14:06:07 GMT -5
I think the biggest stumbling block for Nakamura will be his english. He is ok at it, but not great. They should wait until Nakamura, Asuka, Ibushi and Ito are all ready to be called up. Bring them up as a stable (Nakamura as a singles wrestler & Ibushi and Ito as a tag team) with a manager who can do the majority of the speaking for them. I'd love to see Heyman stapled to them. They could call it 'Mayhem'... In all seriousness, yes they have the fact they are all Japanese in common but in this day and age it's just lazy booking and imo would actually hurt Nakamura as much as it may help the others. Let him get over on his own, he already has enough to work with and his english will only improve.
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Aug 26, 2016 14:30:31 GMT -5
Nobody heard him on Talk is Jericho?
His English is pretty damn good.
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Post by kalgoroth on Aug 26, 2016 15:27:46 GMT -5
Nobody heard him on Talk is Jericho? His English is pretty damn good. It's practical. I struggled sometimes to fully understand him during it and had to rely on Jericho 'translating' often and noticed even he started dumbing down his english, using simpler sentence structures etc, till Nakamura was more comfortable. But all things considered it is good and like I said will only improve.
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sluggo
Curtain Jerker
Posts: 145
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Post by sluggo on Aug 27, 2016 13:08:18 GMT -5
It's good enough for NXT, and he shouldn't be silent in WWE even with a manager but you need to be able to speak in WWE, at least in the long run. Its basically the same situation Brock Lesner is in. How is it the same as Brock? Brock can cut a promo, whenever they do a sit down interview style for his matches he's fantastic. Yes he has Heyman for the long promos. I'd also like to say that the need to cut an amazing promo every time isn't a must that it once was. WWE just pushed the hell out of Finn Balor & made him the first Universal champ and he isn't an incredible promo. They worked around him and pushed his strengths. There's also the Reigns point, he isn't a good promo at all and WWE pushed the him to WWE champ several times and likely will again in the future. That's exactly how it's similar to Brock. The 4 seem fine in controlled environments and shorts bursts, but would greatly benefit from having someone like Heymen to do the "heavy lifting" live and during long promos When did the crowd turn on Reigns? When he started talking, which is needed for top tier talent. And remember if at someone nakamura or Asoka or Ito etc...... Are no longer in need a mouth piece, you can always break them away, but if you start them on their own and it's an issue they may not recover.
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sluggo
Curtain Jerker
Posts: 145
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Post by sluggo on Aug 27, 2016 13:11:22 GMT -5
I think the biggest stumbling block for Nakamura will be his english. He is ok at it, but not great. They should wait until Nakamura, Asuka, Ibushi and Ito are all ready to be called up. Bring them up as a stable (Nakamura as a singles wrestler & Ibushi and Ito as a tag team) with a manager who can do the majority of the speaking for them. I'd love to see Heyman stapled to them. They could call it 'Mayhem'... In all seriousness, yes they have the fact they are all Japanese in common but in this day and age it's just lazy booking and imo would actually hurt Nakamura as much as it may help the others. Let him get over on his own, he already has enough to work with and his english will only improve. Don't think it's lazy at all. The new day are all black, is that lazy? Was the League of Nations a lazy idea? (They booked horribly.....) And as I said, when you have 4 performers who all have the same weakness sticking thrm together with one manager makes more sense then finding and paying 3-4 mouth pieces or letting them potentially flounder.
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Post by kalgoroth on Aug 27, 2016 15:46:56 GMT -5
They could call it 'Mayhem'... In all seriousness, yes they have the fact they are all Japanese in common but in this day and age it's just lazy booking and imo would actually hurt Nakamura as much as it may help the others. Let him get over on his own, he already has enough to work with and his english will only improve. Don't think it's lazy at all. The new day are all black, is that lazy? Was the League of Nations a lazy idea? (They booked horribly.....) And as I said, when you have 4 performers who all have the same weakness sticking thrm together with one manager makes more sense then finding and paying 3-4 mouth pieces or letting them potentially flounder. The New Day weren't "booked", that was their own idea as no-one had anything else for them, it was only when they were basically allowed to do their own thing that it started to take off. And yes, the LON was lazy, hence why it didn't work, everyone saw through the fact it was just a poor attempt to strengthen Sheamus as a credible champ against Reigns using guys they didn't have anything else for. Once they had failed to get the golden boy over they were left to flounder. Putting Japanese guys together because, well, they're Japanese, wouldn't help anyone. Nakamura and Asuka have already proven they can get over fine by themselves, I can't see Ibushi being any different. Throwing them together would just confirm everyone's opinion that all Vince sees is their nationality and has no faith in them to get over by themselves.
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Post by Christian Small on Aug 27, 2016 16:13:45 GMT -5
How is it the same as Brock? Brock can cut a promo, whenever they do a sit down interview style for his matches he's fantastic. Yes he has Heyman for the long promos. I'd also like to say that the need to cut an amazing promo every time isn't a must that it once was. WWE just pushed the hell out of Finn Balor & made him the first Universal champ and he isn't an incredible promo. They worked around him and pushed his strengths. There's also the Reigns point, he isn't a good promo at all and WWE pushed the him to WWE champ several times and likely will again in the future. That's exactly how it's similar to Brock. The 4 seem fine in controlled environments and shorts bursts, but would greatly benefit from having someone like Heymen to do the "heavy lifting" live and during long promos When did the crowd turn on Reigns? When he started talking, which is needed for top tier talent. And remember if at someone nakamura or Asoka or Ito etc...... Are no longer in need a mouth piece, you can always break them away, but if you start them on their own and it's an issue they may not recover. Reigns' promos were part of why the fans turned on him but I think it was more the fact WWE wanted him over the fans who at the time wanted Daniel Bryan way more. It was & is more a backlash towards WWE's booking and them choosing who they want to be the guy instead of listening to the crowd. So let me ask, who is this magical mouthpiece you'd put with Nakamura & others. Because honestly Paul Heyman is not the answer. Yeah Paul is fantastic with Brock but look at his track record with other "Heyman guys". Curtis Axel and Cesaro didn't benefit at all from Heyman. Outside of Heyman they have no other managers they could use. So to me it's not so much the case of guys needing a mouthpiece and more they have no one who can be one.
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Post by rocketking on Aug 27, 2016 19:31:52 GMT -5
The new day are all black, is that lazy? Was the League of Nations a lazy idea? (They booked horribly.....) Yes to both, but the New Day overcame it. EDIT: "Lazy" might not be the right word for the League of Nations. Maybe haphazard or thrown together... which I suppose is somewhat understandable since it was a part of the chain reaction that started with Rollins getting injured and vacating the belt. Either way, do you remember how ridiculous that really was? They literally formed a four-man faction IMMEDIATELY AFTER SURVIVOR SERIES! I've never seen a group look more like a Survivor Series team than those four guys.
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Aug 27, 2016 20:08:05 GMT -5
New Day were a Vince McMahon project....they said it themselves.
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Post by kalgoroth on Aug 28, 2016 3:03:29 GMT -5
New Day were a Vince McMahon project....they said it themselves. The idea of putting them together may have been, but do you remember the original concept? Malcom X/Black Panther-esque group frustrated by their lack of opportunity because they were black. So basically the Nation of Domination part 2. Then that was watered down into the preacher-type gimmick, however again it was only until it had died a death and the writers let them come up with their own stuff that it started to get over.
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Post by thebenjamin on Aug 28, 2016 4:42:26 GMT -5
He's 36, going to be 37 in February. They should be calling him up ASAP. It's such a waste to have guys like Balor, Joe, Aries, Roode down in NXT when we get crap like Titus every week on RAW
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Aug 28, 2016 17:35:04 GMT -5
New Day were a Vince McMahon project....they said it themselves. The idea of putting them together may have been, but do you remember the original concept? Malcom X/Black Panther-esque group frustrated by their lack of opportunity because they were black. So basically the Nation of Domination part 2. Then that was watered down into the preacher-type gimmick, however again it was only until it had died a death and the writers let them come up with their own stuff that it started to get over. that wasn't the concept, it was just some guys being frustrated over their positions on the card. Hardly a black panther movement, it's actually pretty racist to assume that IMO.
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Post by kalgoroth on Aug 29, 2016 10:54:56 GMT -5
The idea of putting them together may have been, but do you remember the original concept? Malcom X/Black Panther-esque group frustrated by their lack of opportunity because they were black. So basically the Nation of Domination part 2. Then that was watered down into the preacher-type gimmick, however again it was only until it had died a death and the writers let them come up with their own stuff that it started to get over. that wasn't the concept, it was just some guys being frustrated over their positions on the card. Hardly a black panther movement, it's actually pretty racist to assume that IMO. Exact quote from Kofi when first proposing the alliance: "You cannot move ahead by shaking hands, kissing babies, singing and dancing like a puppet. You cannot move ahead by always doing what you're told. It is our time to find purpose, because we do not ask any longer. Now, we take." Quote from Malcolm X: "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." Kofi knew what he was doing, playing it as three disgruntled employees with only subtle undertones of black suppression, but even that got such severe backlash and criticism that it was just the WWE being racist again they disappeared for a while while they rethought it. Then Vince came up with the idea of the preacher gimmick, thought it would work as a babyface thing but given this in itself is as stereotypical if less controversial it died a death. It was only because they knew it was so bad that if they turned it up to 11 people would turn on them that it started to click. Next time please check your facts before suggesting someone is being racist.
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