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Post by ramachandrabroz on Apr 15, 2012 17:23:42 GMT -5
It has to be discussed here, too. ;D
Also, my native language is not English, so for all of you 'Jason Agnews' out there (j/k ;D), please bear with me, mmm'kay?
Tools of the trade discussed here: -Pirating (torrent, cyberlockers etc. dropboxes etc.) -Live-streaming -Delay-streaming (e.g. Youtube etc. video upload services) -add your own
Your stance, yes or no?
Your personal justification for your choices? (e.g. 'the show isn't available in my country,so I...' etc.) How serious do you thing the act of pirating is in general?
Is it 'pirating' (like according to the lobbyists) or 'sharing files' (like pirates try to rationalize)?
What about youtube: there is thousands of hours wrestling illegally available: do you watch these videos and would you consider watching youtube in this manner being a gray area and not comparable to 'pirating'? Or is this a way to 'share files' too, eventhough the file is being streamed?
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Post by Gee Hall on Apr 15, 2012 17:39:10 GMT -5
While I know where to YARR!!! these things I don't. It doesn't help anyone doing so. Also, when you consider the fact that tonight is Lockdown, it's not even worth the time. If they don't care, why should I? Just saying....
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Post by ramachandrabroz on Apr 15, 2012 18:06:24 GMT -5
I condone to all sort of file sharing. In my opinion, there is no such thing as 'pirating', in this context. Pirating means 'stealing' and to be more spesific 'stealing and selling for profit'. First of all, nothing is being stolen. It's being copied. Sure, it's being distributed outside the original owner's permission, but that is not the same as the act of stealing. Second of all, 95% of file sharing is being done without profit. (that number is just my general understanding, nothing official).
Also, 'pirating' is not criminalized in my country (Finland. BTW Piratebay is Swedish, so our neighbour). We (like Sweden,too) have an actual Pirate Party in our congress. Not joking, and there are other countries, too. So I guess the overall atmosphere towards file sharing might be more lax, than somewhere else.
Just to add to the above: my own consuming habits have not changed much, even when file sharing became an option: I still buy all the stuff I like. Actually, I spend more on entertainment products now, since I can 'test-drive' a lot of new things I would've not have tried out, if I had to pay before testing.
Oh, and none of these wrestling shows are available in my country. But that fact is just a side note. This being said the WWE has actually gained money from me, because I watch their shows online, and when they come here for house-shows, I go and buy a ticket +merc. I wouldn't go, if I couldn't even follow their product, naturally.
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Post by Chris.charlton on Apr 15, 2012 22:50:41 GMT -5
Yarr, tis a tricky one. Legally, it's all wrong and bad, ethically you can say its a way of preserving history, and yeah, making material available you can't get otherwise (I don't think it's worth waiting two weeks for raw with Japanese subtitles in my case). I think it's pretty clear cut that anything you're getting for free that is normally paid content isn't cool, and you're not entitled to content just because it's 'too expensive'. That said, I'd never judge people that pinch stuff on the Internet, just don't kid yourself by saying its morally justifiable. From a company standpoint, I'm not usually of the opinion that 'it's drawing eyes to a product that wouldn't have them otherwise'. While its possible ECW wouldn't have made nearly the same impact if it wasn't for tape traders, nowadays you'd hope companies use their YouTube presence and what have you to do that. Combatting piracy meanwhile.. For wwe and the like it's not so much about price as convenience. Ultimately people will steal shit regardless of price, but if you make legitimate purchase as easy or easier an experienc ethan piracy, you've at least half won. Music and pc game piracy is still rife, but since iTunes and steam appeared, it's really helped. I get the feeling wwe are at least trying with their streams, but they need to make it available to more countries, and allow digital copies if theyre asking the prices they are now.
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Post by Blaine Van Der Griend on Apr 16, 2012 0:45:49 GMT -5
TNA should be paying us to watch their terrible pay per views. So at least this is meeting us half way
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Post by Irwin R Schyster on Apr 16, 2012 2:14:34 GMT -5
I paid for Wrestlemania, Royal Rumble, Summerslam, the rest i stream. If the WWE half asses B pay per views, then they dont deserve my money.
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Post by Chris.charlton on Apr 16, 2012 3:18:54 GMT -5
I'd have thought IRS would be protective of IP law. More to the point (and I'm not innocent here so not being preachy, just for the convo)- if wwe half arse their B shows, why do you feel you should watch them at all?
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Post by Louis from Montréal on Apr 16, 2012 7:50:35 GMT -5
* Pay for the big 4 (WrestleMania, SummerSlam, SurvivorSeries, RoyalRumble). * Go to a sports bar with friends if a B show looks good (last year, only went to go see Money in the Bank). * YouTube highlights of other shows if The LAW / Review-a-Wai reviews point out must see matches / spots. I used to torrent all the B shows (as well as TNA shows) but most are not worth the time (to watch).
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Post by Chris.charlton on Apr 16, 2012 8:12:30 GMT -5
Do you think business would improve if ppvs were selling matches a la carte with the undercard optional? Would charging 7bucks for lesnar cena do better than charging 40 for all of extreme rules?
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Post by Jay Hunter on Apr 16, 2012 11:27:40 GMT -5
Do you think business would improve if ppvs were selling matches a la carte with the undercard optional? Would charging 7bucks for lesnar cena do better than charging 40 for all of extreme rules? I think it would have the reverse effect of the core audience buying the $7 version instead of the whole show! For WWE's brand, they'd get overall more money having the same regulars buy a PPV at full price, than slightly more people buying at half price. TNA on the other hand, desperately need to stop doing PPVs every month. They need about 20,000 to break even and they bring in around 7,000. They're losing money every month "just so they can be like the fed".
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Post by Jay Hunter on Apr 16, 2012 11:34:22 GMT -5
With regards to piracy, I generally get whatever TV shows I want for free; as they're shown on TV for free (some shows are about a season behind in Ireland, fuck you!). I go to the cinema often but i watch films at home too; if they're any good I'll buy them on Blu-Ray/on sale. I have a ton of DVDs.
Wrestling, i have no qualms about pirating. I OWN every PPV on DVD or taped/bought VHS from WrestleMania 1 onwards (i.e. 1985 up until ~2009) and a rake of home video DVDs so I figure I've given WWE enough. If I couldn't pirate shows I'd pretty much just stop watching; i've got tons of Old School shit to keep me going. I'll buy a big PPV if it's worth the cash, which having to stay up until 4am, it seldom is, outside Mania or Rumble.
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Post by carmichael on Apr 16, 2012 13:01:09 GMT -5
I think Piracy is massively wrong its not stealing but its the classic free rider dilemma. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_rider_problemI also believe that its totally arrogant for you the consumer to decide how much something is worth. Its like if you think a cd or a wrestling ppv is too expensive but you still take it, then thats arrogance Finally the more piracy happens the less likely you are to see top dollar film or tv made or even the WWE bothering to put money into getting guys like the rock back for ppvs and focusing more on touring. Its not either like you say well Vince and Cena have all this money anyway but they employ like hundreds of people who don't have the money and rely on a job to feed their family. So if you stop paying for films and tv, yeah Weinstein or Spielberg wont be hurt financially but they will when they have to sack people who only earn 30 thousand a year and rely on that job.
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Post by dombag85 on Apr 16, 2012 13:16:41 GMT -5
i'm good with streaming and pirating, there are too many ufc show to spend that much money on... the one's that are important i pay for, wwe has told me for the last 3 or so years that only mania and rumble are important, so i only buy mania and rumble, tna i don't even bother, sometimes i'll watch if there's an angle match that intrigues me but that's about it. I buy every ROH ippv, and i'll buy some chikara shows like king of trios when i feel like it. I try to see as much live wrestling as i can and that's how i rationalize stealing it so frequently, basically i think there are too many ppv's in general and rather than scale down, wrestling in particular is completely fine with taking money for a handful of shit shows per year so rather than pay for a shit show that i have interest in watching for 1 or 2 matches, i'll just pirate and not feel bad about it. is it right? no, but get up and live with it and myself every morning just fine.
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Post by Jay Hunter on Apr 16, 2012 13:17:35 GMT -5
carmichael, how do you feel about pirates who got a CD for free but then went out and bought their discography/went to their concert/bought merch? That's what happened with me with Tenacious D (and a bunch of other artists i like)
Americans/Canadians are so lucky with their legal alternatives like netflix/redbox/gamefly etc.
I'm glad piracy has affected the music industry. Legal music is so much cheaper now since they've had to 'compete' with piracy. Instead of paying £20+ for a CD a decade ago, it's about €10-13 for a mp3 of the album.
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Post by carmichael on Apr 16, 2012 14:03:02 GMT -5
Well i think its wrong that you use something for free that someone has made and set a price on? Its arrogant and criminal imo. Okay it might not be stealing in its purest sense but its a bit morally shit.
Also about canadians and americans have netflix and stuff, we have lovefilm and bbc iplayer and that last one is basically free to use. Its not all bad, i agree that we're a tiny bit behind America in its development of tv technology but their whole country is built round the television, the uk is not so much
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