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Post by hanzi83 on Oct 2, 2017 0:20:34 GMT -5
I haven’t wrote on this board in a while but I wanted to adress my call and clarify I was not expecting to go a Vince Russo route with “breaking kayfabe” but WWE itself have claimed sports entertainment in their program and have referred to characters and stage names. You have had people within storylines bringing up legitimacy in the WWE and what would sports entertainment within kayfabe entail. My whole purpose of breaking the fourth wall would not do it like Russo did but for the purpose of exposing what has gone on and use past history to showcase this conspiracy. in Kayfabe WWE is the most corrupted company when they have fuck finishes or have ppl in shitty gimmicks. You could say ppl have to take dives or have a gimmick that is so unrealistic ... since they have done convoluted stuff over the years this would be an attempt to undo what they have done and you can easily explain this to the general audience and thats why you are seeing more and more ppl on social media breaking kayfabe because I believe it is supposed to be lifitng the curtain a little.In real life Vince claimed sports entertainment because he didnt want to pay a tax if it was presented real so why wouldnt elements in WWE be scripted and you can explain scripted promos and why certain people lose but then suddently become winners like Daniel Bryan does. You could say someone like Santino who is a legit shoot fighter was saddled with a sports entertainment gimmick and he never utilized his full skill but when he could showcase that he almost won the Rumble or almost beat Daniel Bryan at Elimination Chamber ...so my whole purpose for pitching it is because Wwe keeps incorporating more... hell you could even say that people getting along in real life behind the scenes are ppl being cordial like if you wanted to address why Sami Zayn is on Owens Dvd you could say that in their personal lives they keep it peaceful because Kevin Owens kid still likes Zayn
The world of wrestling has been unrealistic for so long of why heels and faces get along and then they dont and that doesnt make sense to the common eye but there are ways to explain it but I know it sounds Russo esque but if you wanted to bring it up in storyline Russo is a reality show writer and he tried to screw WCW on behalf of WWE and scripted it fully and the reasons why wrestlers couldnt say shit in storyline because they signed NDA clauses and they can only do it in a general sense just like you can say that minorities who express hatred for the US empire have to generalize their point of view. You could correlate this to real life like how actors have stage names but have a real name like Emilio Estavez isnt his real name so why cant wrestlers in storyline have a stage name
I just think if you expose it it will be this generations job to undo it all so wrestling can be presented in more reality based and focus on the wrestling.You can even have a wrestler who sucks at promos have a creative team with him handing him notes for promos and he messes up his lines and loses it because he just wants to wrestle... there are so many layers and so many start overs for people who have been jobbing like Hawkins who could claim he was brought back to take dives
WWE is a lot like the Us empire if it didnt happen in their territory it didnt happen and they have revivisionist history and claim because they are the biggest company they are the best company and I do feel WWE has been going this route for a long time with how transparent it was and that is why lines like when Cm punk says to Hunter “This isnt cm punk talking to triple h this phil brooks talking to paul levesque” How else could you explain lines like that. In storyline that Punk promo was them breaking the fourth wall within storyline even though it was scripted beforehand . i know Lavranski was not thrilled about the idea but its all in execution but thanks for letting me air it out but I just wanted to explain some brainstormed thoughts on what I envision so I hope someone from the show sees it but Im not expecting a reply and again I apologize for posting a long Russo esque idea but I am not trying to do what he did but something different and all the ideas have come from their program because they constantly bring up real life issues and blur the lines
Thats why when Dolph complains and breaks the fourth wall because his character is also required to take dives and if he doesnt he getd screwed over like being out in impromptu matches or being concussed ... Im just trying to explain the confusion the IWC have with these type of promos and we dissect how it makes sense and it all can make sense and it can change for the better
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Post by geethanksmister on Oct 3, 2017 7:21:32 GMT -5
I haven’t wrote on this board in a while but I wanted to adress my call and clarify I was not expecting to go a Vince Russo route with “breaking kayfabe” but WWE itself have claimed sports entertainment in their program and have referred to characters and stage names. You have had people within storylines bringing up legitimacy in the WWE and what would sports entertainment within kayfabe entail. My whole purpose of breaking the fourth wall would not do it like Russo did but for the purpose of exposing what has gone on and use past history to showcase this conspiracy. in Kayfabe WWE is the most corrupted company when they have fuck finishes or have ppl in shitty gimmicks. You could say ppl have to take dives or have a gimmick that is so unrealistic ... since they have done convoluted stuff over the years this would be an attempt to undo what they have done and you can easily explain this to the general audience and thats why you are seeing more and more ppl on social media breaking kayfabe because I believe it is supposed to be lifitng the curtain a little.In real life Vince claimed sports entertainment because he didnt want to pay a tax if it was presented real so why wouldnt elements in WWE be scripted and you can explain scripted promos and why certain people lose but then suddently become winners like Daniel Bryan does. You could say someone like Santino who is a legit shoot fighter was saddled with a sports entertainment gimmick and he never utilized his full skill but when he could showcase that he almost won the Rumble or almost beat Daniel Bryan at Elimination Chamber ...so my whole purpose for pitching it is because Wwe keeps incorporating more... hell you could even say that people getting along in real life behind the scenes are ppl being cordial like if you wanted to address why Sami Zayn is on Owens Dvd you could say that in their personal lives they keep it peaceful because Kevin Owens kid still likes Zayn The world of wrestling has been unrealistic for so long of why heels and faces get along and then they dont and that doesnt make sense to the common eye but there are ways to explain it but I know it sounds Russo esque but if you wanted to bring it up in storyline Russo is a reality show writer and he tried to screw WCW on behalf of WWE and scripted it fully and the reasons why wrestlers couldnt say shit in storyline because they signed NDA clauses and they can only do it in a general sense just like you can say that minorities who express hatred for the US empire have to generalize their point of view. You could correlate this to real life like how actors have stage names but have a real name like Emilio Estavez isnt his real name so why cant wrestlers in storyline have a stage name I just think if you expose it it will be this generations job to undo it all so wrestling can be presented in more reality based and focus on the wrestling.You can even have a wrestler who sucks at promos have a creative team with him handing him notes for promos and he messes up his lines and loses it because he just wants to wrestle... there are so many layers and so many start overs for people who have been jobbing like Hawkins who could claim he was brought back to take dives WWE is a lot like the Us empire if it didnt happen in their territory it didnt happen and they have revivisionist history and claim because they are the biggest company they are the best company and I do feel WWE has been going this route for a long time with how transparent it was and that is why lines like when Cm punk says to Hunter “This isnt cm punk talking to triple h this phil brooks talking to paul levesque” How else could you explain lines like that. In storyline that Punk promo was them breaking the fourth wall within storyline even though it was scripted beforehand . i know Lavranski was not thrilled about the idea but its all in execution but thanks for letting me air it out but I just wanted to explain some brainstormed thoughts on what I envision so I hope someone from the show sees it but Im not expecting a reply and again I apologize for posting a long Russo esque idea but I am not trying to do what he did but something different and all the ideas have come from their program because they constantly bring up real life issues and blur the lines Thats why when Dolph complains and breaks the fourth wall because his character is also required to take dives and if he doesnt he getd screwed over like being out in impromptu matches or being concussed ... Im just trying to explain the confusion the IWC have with these type of promos and we dissect how it makes sense and it all can make sense and it can change for the better That’s a very insightful and intereszzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
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Post by thebenjamin on Oct 3, 2017 10:39:47 GMT -5
Terrible call. Dont call the show again.
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Post by Christian Small on Oct 3, 2017 12:22:15 GMT -5
Let's be fair, you had the nerve to actually call into the show to share something. Many never call in at all.
I didn't hear your call as I don't listen to any calls on the Law, I usually start skipping. Partly because it cuts the show down a fair bit. I will also be honest and say I didn't read much of this post either as it's really long.
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334 
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Post by deezy on Oct 3, 2017 12:38:42 GMT -5
Maybe "pro wrestling insiders/experts" should stop pretending kayfabe means anything to anyone not having a brain injury.
It furthers the stereotype of rasslin fans being toothless knuckledraggers that we've all heard from the "fake and gay" crowd forever.
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Post by hanzi83 on Oct 3, 2017 16:16:24 GMT -5
Let's be fair, you had the nerve to actually call into the show to share something. Many never call in at all. I didn't hear your call as I don't listen to any calls on the Law, I usually start skipping. Partly because it cuts the show down a fair bit. I will also be honest and say I didn't read much of this post either as it's really long. Hey man thanks for giving me some resepdtful feedback opposed to the other assholes who just decided to just shit on me but dealing w hostil internet crowds isnt new to me since people stalk anhthing I do on the internet to shit on anything I say it was miore to clairfy it to the hosts because thry have other callers to get to so I was just trying to pitch something thwt changes the presentation but props to you for at least being respectful on the internet which is something most jerk offs cant even do but I dont exactly have the rep that earns respect so its all good I guess |
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Post by hanzi83 on Oct 3, 2017 16:22:02 GMT -5
Maybe "pro wrestling insiders/experts" should stop pretending kayfabe means anything to anyone not having a brain injury. It furthers the stereotype of rasslin fans being toothless knuckledraggers that we've all heard from the "fake and gay" crowd forever. I dont really care a out kayfabe either but everyone bitches about it constantly especially when these guys break it all the time and it takes up dicussioj from majority of the podcasts and radio shows there so obviously it means something to people so I just thought we evolutionize what wrestling is and how its presented because the way its presented is boring and seems overly scripted and I believe things are by design and I know I cant prove it but it feels more and more they make this shit obvious that this stuff even in storyline is scripted to some degree when they constantly break the fourth wall and bring up not passing drug tests that they left in the promo packages |
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deezy
Misawa
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Post by deezy on Oct 3, 2017 18:34:53 GMT -5
Wrestling is overly scripted because it is its shared own universe.
Acting like a guy like Richard Belzer should've been John Munch 24/7 because he played him on two separate shows is pants on head goofy.
Acting like pro wrestlers should be the same is just the same.
Just like any production...there's a script. ..only a certain select few can adlib and improvise on set.
They are usually the ones trusted to do so and have marquee value....sound familiar?
Also...online experts complain about kayfabe only when it suits their narative.
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Post by hanzi83 on Oct 3, 2017 19:15:40 GMT -5
Wrestling is overly scripted because it is its shared own universe. Acting like a guy like Richard Belzer should've been John Munch 24/7 because he played him on two separate shows is pants on head goofy. Acting like pro wrestlers should be the same is just the same. Just like any production...there's a script. ..only a certain select few can adlib and improvise on set. They are usually the ones trusted to do so and have marquee value....sound familiar? Also...online experts complain about kayfabe only when it suits their narative. But its also evolution kf the business when news dominates the cycle and by design it does that and it affects our opinions on things so why not fully just embrace it because no one is buying their in storyline angles. You could easily correlate this to real life because ppl in real life in this “reality”world is a little more chestrated but who cares Im done trying to convince people and respect to two people who at least tried to have a civil convo about it and even tho you dont agree with what Im saying its fine ...like I said imposted for the hosts to see it so I can expand on what I was talking about ans btw I dont think Im some expert but the people who promote themselves to be and get paid handsomly for it are also in kn the work to some degree in my opinion and them bitching about it is supposed to set the seeds ...kayfabe has changed but it still exists in ways people domt thimk could be possible so I like to think I at least analyze it a little different because we are supposed to and this is the era of that thinking otherwise there wouldnt be 80 million podcasts and outlets analyzing it 24 7 you want people to stop bitching about it then everyone should cancel their podcast and stop reporting on insider stuff |
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deezy
Misawa
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Post by deezy on Oct 3, 2017 21:30:16 GMT -5
People talking about ratings and tickets sold while using insider terms were done to death in 2000.
It was horrible.
It's fun in small doses....very small doses.
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Post by hanzi83 on Oct 3, 2017 23:44:12 GMT -5
People talking about ratings and tickets sold while using insider terms were done to death in 2000. It was horrible. It's fun in small doses....very small doses. But the point is they arent doing it in small doses they are doing it more often ... you seriously think if “internet” fans didnt know that WWE was pushing heavy for Reigns to be the gjy that people would have the wherewithal of knowing to boo this guy? Its because we are supposed to reject him because at his core Reigns is not a good guy he is a disguised good guy .... and it was done in 2000s to death and the internet was not big back then or not as big as it is now but thats not just WWE its the political climate right now and wrestling has always been reflective of what is happening in society and right now conspiracies and controversy behind the scenes is what is in with other stuff ... and my poijt is if you are going to do this constantly then you might as well expose it so you can make wrestling seem less scripted within storyline and present it more like a sport but still have realistic storylines Btw watch Punks promos and tell me that shit isnt foreshadowing what is happening now ans in the end Punk will be proven right. I,personally think it is so transparently scripted right now because it is supposed to be torn down before a change can happen and in 2011Triple H in an interview alluded to this by saying to start over again you have to tear the infrastructure down .... listen it was just an idea i threw out but I guarantee you that if wrestling continues to be the way it is now it wont sustain interest ..and people are already getting sick of it |
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deezy
Misawa
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Post by deezy on Oct 4, 2017 0:02:10 GMT -5
Lost me with the CM Punk talk....
Watch WCW 2000 and listen to Cyrus commentary on ECW on TNN and tell me it's what WWE is doing today.
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Post by hanzi83 on Oct 4, 2017 3:23:34 GMT -5
Lost me with the CM Punk talk.... Watch WCW 2000 and listen to Cyrus commentary on ECW on TNN and tell me it's what WWE is doing today. I am well aware, and we might as well just stop the conversation from going further, since I lost you with my talk, which is a vital piece of what I was trying to convey, and I get it, you don't agree, but I am not proposing we do it like what WCW and ECW did, I am talking about how this shit goes in cycles and the more and more they incorporate "real" life stuff and have planted seeds over the last several years since the Punk pipe bomb is not a coincidence, because it was supposed to start a new era of transparency and that is why this company keeps looking like fools, or at least they make you think they are the fools, when it could be an elaborate plan to create something new while keeping the company afloat, and also when WCW, WWE and ECW did it, it wasn't really breaking any fourth wall because it was meant for us IWC type to think it was some real shit, because they have always marketed to us in some way, and even though this is a theory the Monday Night Wars were a work, because WCW was always meant to fail, and I could just guess that Ted Turner bought it and make some money for a bit before it died out and it created the biggest wrestling boom. It was always meant to die, and that is why when people point to what WCW did in 2000 etc it doesn't compute with me, because no one could be that dumb, the entire business is a work. I am sure I lost you on the word CM Punk again at the beginning and you stopped reading after I said not to carry this conversation further, so I won't expect a reply and if it does, I know it will entail i have no proof of this, and you are indeed right, but it is just a delusional hypothesis that just popped up in my head. Anyways, we can just agree to disagree. Thanks for conversing with me for a bit, and not being rude like others were. Ta ta. |
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Post by siredger on Oct 4, 2017 23:40:02 GMT -5
At least, you're not Rick from Mississauga or whatever his name is.
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Post by Zekey on Oct 5, 2017 0:26:11 GMT -5
Breaking Kayfabe is the worst sin that can be committed on a wrestling show. I'm fine with peeling behind the 4th wall. If CM Punk wants to reveal his real name is Phil Brooks I'm good. As soon as he mentioned that Hunter's name is Paul then he sinned. Don't try to explain it. WWE was wrong for airing that. Especially because right after getting real, Phil Brooks hit Paul Levesque with the mic, and Paul acted like it hurt enough to knock him to the floor defenceless. Once you go real you can't do fake pro wrestling physicality.
EDIT: I disagree with almost everything u wrote in your 1st post and your phone call.
I suppose if Enzo had a ghost writer that could be turned into a storyline. But I don't want an acknowledgement that there's a team of writers who prepare everyone's material.
Sami Zayn being on KO's dvd should not be mentioned on the WWE broadcasts. I accept that WWE produces real world documentaries. Lets keep them separate.
Daniel Bryan went from a loser to a winner because the fans cheered louder for him. He channeled that into a championship run. Fans have the power to raise you up from a hold.
If Curt Hawkins ever said that he dives then the audience should roll their eyes. It should be treated like a kid who loses and says "I wasn't even trying".
Dolph Ziggler has never said he's required to take dives and never should.
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