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Post by rinaldo on Mar 26, 2017 11:50:13 GMT -5
The moment he gets out of his WWE contract is the moment he'll go back to Japan or whatever and get fucked up.
About the concussion deal... WWE let Bret Hart "wrestle" at WM against Vince a few years ago. Sure it wasn't much of a match but he still had to pass tests right?
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Post by Milky on Mar 26, 2017 17:28:55 GMT -5
Just an idea, but imagine if Bryan faced Brock Lesnar in a dream match. You could script it so that the story is Brock trying to murder Bryan, and Bryan doing the best he can to avoid Brock’s grasp.
The whole match could be based around this. Bryan has to keep away and play it smart, taking his chances to get a shot in whenever he gets them. Maybe he has to roll out of the ring from time to time, maybe Brock hunts him outside the ring, or maybe Bryan just darts around the ring and frustrates his opponent, but whatever he does he constantly avoids Brock Lesnar.
Fans would expect that eventually Brock will catch him and deliver an F5 or worse, but that doesn’t have to be the finish. You could have Bryan continually avoid Brock until the very end, when he ultimately catches Brock with a submission move to end the match.
That’s just one example of how you could book a compelling match with minimal risk.
Also, the smoking analogy is not apt because we know exactly what smoking does to your body. But with concussions, I maintain that the risk of concussing yourself by hitting your head on something or having something hit your head in everyday life, is just as low as the risk of concussing yourself taking small knocks in a wrestling ring. IMO you are only really susceptible to a concussion after you’ve just been concussed or if you take a very hard blow to your brain. As long as Bryan plays it safe (like outlined above) I don’t think he’s in any serious danger of concussion.
Anyway, I do respect the WWE for not letting Bryan wrestle, because presumably they could make a lot more money off him but are choosing not to due to his health. That’s admirable. But also we are talking about a man’s livelihood here and a health issue that’s not fully understood yet enforced as if it is. We definitely do not know for sure that Bryan is “incapable of wrestling” ever again. Also, if you love wrestling as much as Bryan does, then being a host of a show is not the same.
Neither side is totally right or wrong on this one, and it will be interesting to see what Bryan does when his WWE contract comes due.
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Mar 26, 2017 19:49:16 GMT -5
If Bryan had that Lesnar match his marks wanted, he would've been far worse than Taker at WM30.
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Post by Christian Small on Mar 27, 2017 10:26:38 GMT -5
Lesnar is pretty reckless with guys and he would have made Bryan so much worse off. Also Milky you've outlined a pretty boring match with a lot of stalling. Stalling works well for heels but Bryan would be the clear babyface so probably best to avoid that.
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Post by Milky on Apr 5, 2017 15:36:52 GMT -5
Lesnar is pretty reckless with guys and he would have made Bryan so much worse off. Also Milky you've outlined a pretty boring match with a lot of stalling. Stalling works well for heels but Bryan would be the clear babyface so probably best to avoid that. It wouldn't be stalling it would be picking his spots. Unlike a heel, he would actually be trying to win the match.
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Post by Christian Small on Apr 6, 2017 10:20:05 GMT -5
Lesnar is pretty reckless with guys and he would have made Bryan so much worse off. Also Milky you've outlined a pretty boring match with a lot of stalling. Stalling works well for heels but Bryan would be the clear babyface so probably best to avoid that. It wouldn't be stalling it would be picking his spots. Unlike a heel, he would actually be trying to win the match. Fans probably won't see it as that, it'd be seen as stalling I bet.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2017 12:32:35 GMT -5
WWE's resident physician did not clear him. When their doctor said "no", that was the end of discussion. Doesn't matter how many outside doctors clear him so long as Bryan is signed to WWE.
If Bryan ever wants to wrestle after his WWE contract runs out, he can go anywhere he wants and tout all those other doctors clearing him. So more power to him out in the wild. But none of that is relevant when it comes to wrestling in WWE.
And no, WWE can't just sign him to a "waiver" and let him wrestle for them again. This is how lazy pro wrestling storylines work; not real life.
- For one, if ever challenged in court, a bunch of legalese does not supersede the expert medical opinion of their own doctor.
- Secondly, given the circumstances, such a waiver is realistically not worth the paper it's printed on and wouldn't stop Brie from suing the shit out of WWE if anything happened to Bryan. Ironically, a waiver like that would bolster Brie's case against WWE in a hypothetical lawsuit.
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Post by Milky on Apr 9, 2017 11:47:13 GMT -5
It wouldn't be stalling it would be picking his spots. Unlike a heel, he would actually be trying to win the match. Fans probably won't see it as that, it'd be seen as stalling I bet. Then make it a no-holds barred match, have Daniel Bryan use plunder and eventually choke Lesnar out with a kendo stick. What are we actually arguing again? As for the legal stuff, I'm not a lawyer so can't comment accurately, but would love to hear actual lawyers on the site chime in. But anyways the point is not whether WWE will let Daniel Bryan wrestle again (spoiler: they won't) but whether or not they should let Daniel Bryan wrestle again.
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Post by Christian Small on Apr 9, 2017 11:55:00 GMT -5
Now you're assuming they'd put Bryan over Brock, which I doubt. Plus it's been noted with Dean Ambrose that Lesnar matches either go his way or not at all. So while Bryan & WWE might go to him with an idea, Brock could likely overrule it and do what he wants which would be suplexing Bryan until he's bored. Also I feel we're gentlemen here, we're not arguing and instead debating.
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Post by Milky on Apr 11, 2017 17:24:44 GMT -5
Debating is fine, but I feel like we're losing focus. This entire situation is hypothetical, so "debating" who would go over is really not necessary. The point I was trying to make was that you could book Daniel Bryan in a safe match and still have it be entertaining. But the main point of all of this was that I don't believe Daniel Bryan is at any more risk of a concussion than any other WWE wrestler. Christian, I'm not sure you're a hockey fan, but if not then look up Frederik Andersen's latest injury (he's Toronto's NHL keeper). Andersen was concussed a few weeks ago, which makes him susceptible to further concussions in the aftermath, which happened again a few nights ago. To me this is a guy that needs to, at a bare minimum, take the rest of the NHL season off and not return again until September. Daniel Bryan, on the other hand, hasn't suffered a concussion in over 2 years now. We still have so much to understand about the brain and brain injuries, so I fully admit I don't have all of the answers here. But unless you want to argue that the concussion he suffered over 2 years ago is still having a degenerative effect on his brain, then I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to make a living doing what he loves in the ring. Of course it is still a risk, but at least in wrestling you have an incredibly large amount of control over the degree of physicality in a match, which is something Frederik Andersen does not have the luxury of. Presumably the WWE are not clearing Bryan due to legal reasons rather than medical ones, but it's a very polarizing topic that has no easy answer. And on a side note, I bet you Andersen plays at some point for the Leafs in the playoffs this season.
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deezy
Misawa
Posts: 2,334
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Post by deezy on Apr 11, 2017 21:52:31 GMT -5
Bryan was diagnosed with lesions on his brain.
If anyone in the NHL had that diagnosis....theyd be calling it a career.
It's a company saving a talent from himself because he's a fucking idiot, who would rather risk his life spamming topes and diving headbutts than be a father and still doing things in the company paying him the most money of his career doing something else.
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Post by Christian Small on Apr 12, 2017 3:49:42 GMT -5
Debating is fine, but I feel like we're losing focus. This entire situation is hypothetical, so "debating" who would go over is really not necessary. The point I was trying to make was that you could book Daniel Bryan in a safe match and still have it be entertaining. But the main point of all of this was that I don't believe Daniel Bryan is at any more risk of a concussion than any other WWE wrestler. Christian, I'm not sure you're a hockey fan, but if not then look up Frederik Andersen's latest injury (he's Toronto's NHL keeper). Andersen was concussed a few weeks ago, which makes him susceptible to further concussions in the aftermath, which happened again a few nights ago. To me this is a guy that needs to, at a bare minimum, take the rest of the NHL season off and not return again until September. Daniel Bryan, on the other hand, hasn't suffered a concussion in over 2 years now. We still have so much to understand about the brain and brain injuries, so I fully admit I don't have all of the answers here. But unless you want to argue that the concussion he suffered over 2 years ago is still having a degenerative effect on his brain, then I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to make a living doing what he loves in the ring. Of course it is still a risk, but at least in wrestling you have an incredibly large amount of control over the degree of physicality in a match, which is something Frederik Andersen does not have the luxury of. Presumably the WWE are not clearing Bryan due to legal reasons rather than medical ones, but it's a very polarizing topic that has no easy answer. And on a side note, I bet you Andersen plays at some point for the Leafs in the playoffs this season. I am not a hockey fan at all but I see your point there. So to get back to the main thing you were talking about. If WWE felt that he could wrestle any time in the future and if the doctors felt the same, I imagine they would not have done the whole retirement thing with Bryan on TV. As you mentioned there is obviously stuff we don't know but if it wasn't that serious I'm sure WWE wouldn't have asked him to do the retirement, they don't do that kind of thing unless they feel there is no way they could wrestle again. You also have to remember that concussion issues were the main cause of Christian's and Bret Hart's retirements from the ring. There are long lasting effects that I'm sure we're unaware of unless we got one ourselves. Thankfully I've never had a concussion so I can't imagine what having one is like, let alone having them in the double digits.
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Post by groovyphoenix on Apr 12, 2017 8:13:11 GMT -5
We have seen how injuries can happen in the ring, the death of a wrestler during a match.
WWE doesn't want to take that chance and frankly I don't blame them. AAA lost momentum with that death, imagine the damage if a death in a WWE ring (when televised) happened? Irreparable for sure.
WWE may not have the "right" to not release him (well they do of course!) if you ask me I think WWE for once is doing the right thing and not looking at the bottom dollar and letting the guy wrestle for them.
He's been hurt and even if he is 1000000% fine, he's proven to be prone to injury, let's not have the "next injury" be his last.
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Post by Milky on Apr 14, 2017 14:42:07 GMT -5
I think (I hope) this will be my last post on the matter.
I thank you all for the friendly banter and you all raise interesting points. I don't know why lesions are more serious than concussions because they're all tied together, but I take your points that it's a serious issue that the WWE are being cautious with.
Interestingly, Kurt Angle spoke on Chris Jericho's podcast last week about the WWE not wanting him to die under their watch. Totally understandable. Obviously wrestlers have died under WWE's watch before and I can understand them being cautious about those types of things.
Just for the record, I've had multiple concussions. Like most people with concussions, I wouldn't be able to tell you exactly how many I've had, but my guess would be around a dozen or so. But what's interesting is that the majority of my concussions came from "everyday life," so to speak. So I guess that's where I was coming from. It's totally a personal opinion but if Bryan honestly feels fine (like I do now) and if he could play it safe, then I don't think he's a big risk for further concussions. I do believe your brain heals over time, compensates, and gets better. That's how I feel anyway, and I'm sure Bryan does too.
And just to show the hypocrisy of concussion management, Frederik Andersen started in goal for the Toronto Maple Leafs in their first playoff game last night, a whopping 4 days after his most recent concussion. And I'm pretty sure he even suffered another minor concussion in that match, though he played on like a robot.
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Post by Christian Small on Apr 15, 2017 3:58:37 GMT -5
I think wrestlers are at a much higher risk of concussions these days. Look at this past Monday's Raw, Finn Balor got one from a forearm. Plus from what I've heard once you've had one concussion you're at a higher risk of getting another. What I've found interesting and I didn't even realise was that yesterday marked Daniel Bryan's 2 year anniversary since his last match. It doesn't feel like it's been 2 years. But I think that shows that if he was going to be healthy enough to work it would have happened since his last match. Although I do realise I'm talking about wrestling and you never say never when it comes to wrestling.
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